Episode 19: Jodi Nevins on Fear

you Jun 08, 2021
Jodi Nevins knows Fear of a School Shooting

Jodi Nevins has lived through every moms worst fear -- a shooting in your kids school. She shares about the experience and how it has brought their family closer.

Learn more about EMDR and find a clinician.

Connect with Jodi on Facebook or Instagram

Jodi's favorite gadget is her paring knife from Chicago Cutlery

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This is a transcript of the This Mom Knows Podcast - Episode - 19

Jennifer Uren
Jodi Nevins grew up in Des Moines, Iowa and married her high school sweetheart, Eric. For 15 years she has been a stay at home mom to their four kids and currently she's pursuing a degree in Organizational Leadership. There are many things that she loves to do and one of them is to have deep conversations. And I'm really looking forward to our conversation today. So welcome, Jodi.

Jodi Nevins
Thank you, Jenn.

Jennifer Uren
So that was a brief bio, so why don't you take a moment, tell us just a little bit more about yourself, and maybe even what got you interested in Organizational Leadership and why you went back to school?

Jodi Nevins
Sure. So like you said, I married my high school sweetheart, Eric, and we have four kids. And our oldest is actually 19 and in college, and our youngest is 10 and in fourth grade, and we live in Colorado. And I did start going back to school, oh, not quite two years ago, and to study Organizational Leadership, and I didn't get my degree back when we were in our 20s, because I didn't know what I wanted to do. And there wasn't a degree like this back then. So when I saw Organizational Leadership as a degree, I thought that that's the degree I wanted in my 20s it because it's just, it has all of this things about leadership. And just how do you lead well, and all the different details and pieces of an organization. HR, conflict management, all these - change management - all these different things that are just...puts together all the things that I am, in a lot of ways. So

Jennifer Uren
Oh, that's neat. And how wise of you to say, "I'm not going to get a degree just to get a degree, if I'm not sure that that any of them fit", so well done.

Jodi Nevins
Oh, thanks.

Jennifer Uren
So today, we're going to talk about something that you know, which is fear, and you know, about fear in a context that many parents worry about, but few have personally experienced, and that is fear during a school shooting. And so as we get started here, I do want to mention that moms, if your kids are within earshot, you might want to wait and listen to today's episode when you can do it more privately. So describe for me what, what life looked like in your family before this event? What was a normal school day like in the Nevin home?

Jodi Nevins
Sure, um, well, it was bustling always. Like, mornings are full of a lot of crazy of making lunches and all of that, but we would usually get the kids off to school. And at this time I was working, so I would go off to work and then you know, Eric would pick the kids up from school, and then we would just start our, you know, afternoon evening routine of playing and dinner, and then homework and all of those, of course, bedtime. Yeah. Sounds pretty normal American family with kids. So,

Jennifer Uren
And were all your kids? Well with you age range they probably weren't, they weren't all in the same school.

Jodi Nevins
And so STEM school is K through 12.

Jennifer Uren
Oh, it is ?

Jodi Nevins
Every, all three of our boys were at STEM. Emily went to a different high school or neighborhood High School. So she was not at STEM, but she's the only one there was not.

Jennifer Uren
Okay. So May 7, right? Is that the date? 2019. It starts out as a normal day. You dropped the kids at school, you go to work, and when did you first learn that something was wrong? And what was your first thought?

Jodi Nevins
So I was at work, and I was in a meeting in our conference room. I work at our church, so I was in there with a couple of pastors and, and such, and we were having a meeting and somebody came in. I kept getting texts and I was like, "okay, that's weird." There's, I'm now I'm getting phone calls from the school. Like what's going on? So I took my friends, but um, call and she's like, "there's been a shooting at the school." And, of course, immediately, you're just like, in shock. And you're like, "No, what? What do you mean, you know what's going on?" And then, of course, people started rushing into the room. And there are a couple of other people on staff that said, "Jodi, you need to people are trying to get ahold of you. There's a shooting at your kids school." And then immediately I was like, I don't have car cuz I Emily was taking the kids to school at the boys to school at that point. Hey, and she had the car. So she brought I brought she brings me to work too at that point. So I had no car. I had nothing. So then I was just trying to figure out, hey, what's happening? And Emily happened to be home, because she was out early for some reason. And then she came to get me and say how do you want me to go through the whole thing?

Jennifer Uren
I was gonna say, you know, as the events continued to unfold, and they started to become serious. Yeah, I mean, keep going, tell us tell us what was going on what was what was going on with the kids at the same time. And you know how long before you knew?

Jodi Nevins
At this point, I was one of the later ones to find out. I was probably the event was still kind of in motion like they weren't the school wasn't secure yet. But it was a good 20 minutes where people have been on on the campus, the police and everything were there for quite a while by the time I knew about it. But as Emily picked me up, I started receiving texts from a Elijah - I did not receive a text from Elijah, Emily received a text from Elijah saying he had no idea was even happening. But he was in the school and he found out from us texting him. So he had no idea. Being inside the school. He was on lockdown in a black room because he was in an inside room. But then I received a text from Josiah as well. He's in he didn't. He doesn't have a phone. He got on a computer in the classroom and started email texting me, "Mom, I'm really scared. There's a shooter. I heard shot gunshots. I don't know what to do." And I you know, just you of course, your mom, your as a mom, you're just heartbroken that you can't be there with them. And then Zach, our youngest, he is in fourth grade. And his teacher was so amazing. She texted every single parent and said, we're safe in the classroom. Our doors are locked. We're in the corner. We're okay right now. So I am so grateful within 10 minutes of finding out that there was a school shooting, I knew that my kids were in a safe place. So but then there is all that time after. So I went home, we got Eric, Eric's dad was actually in town at the time. So he came and all of us got in the car. And we went to where they were telling the parents to go in the nearby rec center. And we waited for five hours for our kids. And at that point, there was no communication, because like Elijah couldn't text us because they just shut down everything. And they were still on saying that it was all still in motion. So they didn't know that we had it under control yet. So then your I was feeling again, oh, my kids may not be okay. Because it was still they said it was still an action. They didn't have it under control. So yeah, so it was just this five hours of all these parents in one room, wondering, hey, what's this? What's going on? Like? I mean, the communication with the police was very good. But it was also very, they didn't know a lot. So.

Jennifer Uren
Right. And so being in that room with all these parents, was that comforting and calming because you're not alone? Or did it sort of feed into the lack of information, feed into wondering and supposing and...was that helpful? Was that not helpful being together?

Jodi Nevins
I think, I think it was helpful to be together. It was I think we were all numb, and in shock. So it was surprisingly quiet. So like, I mean, there were people texting and calling and, you know, just constant. You "Are you okay? Where are your kids? Do you know if your kids are okay?" So just constant bombarding of trying to answer people and, but they also kept us busy.

Jennifer Uren
Mm hmm.

Jodi Nevins
That helped. It did help to know that we had a couple of friends there we were, we would wander around the gym and find each other. And because we knew that our kids were all there, so we had some friends from the seminary that at Denver Seminary that they had their kids there so I mean, it was comforting yet you're just sitting in this tension.

Jennifer Uren
It probably felt a little surreal.

Jodi Nevins
My kids... Are they okay? How are they feeling? And like all these thoughts are going through your head and you have no control over it.

Jennifer Uren
Right. And your oldest son who who didn't know the until you guys messaged him, did he just think he was in a lockdown drill?

Jodi Nevins
He did. Okay, great. You know, they would hear different things would cause people them to go into drills but he said once it lasted for more than 5-10 minutes he knew something was wrong, but he didn't what So

Jennifer Uren
And did he ever hear any evidence of it like your other son did?

Jodi Nevins
No, but once they the classroom they were all finding out from parents. Basically from from the outside world that what was happening. So he was in the weight room. And so they started bombarding, like, putting barriers on the doors. So that nobody could come in and like different things like that. So yeah, they were sitting literally in the dark, the only light that they had was from their cell phones.

Jennifer Uren
Wow.

Jodi Nevins
Oh, and that was for probably two hours.

Jennifer Uren
Wow. I can't I can't, I can picture it, but I can't imagine it, you know. So when all was said and done, and the dust settled, and, and the news came out, you know, what, what was the impact that the shooter had that day? Did they get him? Did he die, which so often happens? Did any students die?

Jodi Nevins
So there were two, two students that were the shooters. And they came into one classroom, and a boy named Kendrick. He rushed - him and a couple of other students rushed the shooters, and Kendrick was shot in the process. He did die on the scene. And one of the sorry, the teacher tried to resuscitate him, and she just couldn't. And there were several other students. I think it was, I don't even remember the number honestly, of how many students were shot but they were all more minor injuries.

Jennifer Uren
Okay.

Jodi Nevins
But then the two shooters were taken down and are alive, and very rare. So they are in jail. And there's trials have all been delayed and such because of all kinds of different things, but, but they are being tried as adults.

Jennifer Uren
Okay. So they were high school students?

Jodi Nevins
One was 18. I believe the other was 16.

Jennifer Uren
Okay. And they were students from that school that just had a beef with somebody

Jodi Nevins
They did. One of them was a girl, turning boy, or boy turning girl. I'm sorry, I really, I really stayed away from a lot of the media afterwards. So yeah, I forget a lot of the facts in regard///

Jennifer Uren
But one of them was changing gender.

Jodi Nevins
Yes. And, and that was, they had been teased. And, and there was definitely a specific group of students in that classroom that they were going after.

Jennifer Uren
Wow. That's heartbreaking. And did I see something recently on your Facebook about something going up in the space shuttle in honor of Kendrick?

Jodi Nevins
Yes. They put his name inside Perseverance Yes.

Jennifer Uren
That's really cool. So, so you're at the end of this long day? And? And when did you you sat in that room for hours wondering, when did you finally know that for sure your kids were physically safe?

Jodi Nevins
I mean, I think you don't know until you actually see them. And then they would call different groups of people according to the age group of your kids to go to certain rooms, so Eric and I had to split up in order to get to our kids. And I went to the fourth grade, and while he was sorry, the second grade at the time, okay. And I went to the second grade pick up, and it was just when his teacher came through that room. She immediately broke down. And you can tell she'd been strong that entire time. And then, of course, all of us parents broke down because we knew that our kids were taken care of because she, she held it together for them. And she loved them well. And but that's when you know, I remember I was sitting at the window and I could see the kids coming up through to come into the building. And when I saw Zach, it was just overwhelming. He's okay.

Jennifer Uren
What a relief. I'm crying here with you. Um, and so was Emily at home, or was she with you also?

Jodi Nevins
She was with us.

Jennifer Uren
Okay

Jodi Nevins
Yeah, she was with me. Yeah.

Jennifer Uren
Good. Oh, so, so that was so what was the? I mean, you said five hours. So I mean, this is like, what dinner time? ish when you finally see them?

Jodi Nevins
Um, I think it was Yeah, it was like 7 or 8.

Jennifer Uren
Oh, so even later. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So that day was definitely a traumatic event filled with fear and the un, the unknown. The not knowing I'm sure in many ways was, was really what really fed that fear. But after the impact was over, and the day was done, I mean, really, I'm sorry, after the event was over, the impact was really just starting. So what were the days immediately following it like? I mean, I assume school was canceled for a while.

Jodi Nevins
Yes, we didn't go back to school for 10 days. It was so everybody at work, I work for a church, so they're just like, "No, you stay home until your kids go back."

Jennifer Uren
They were gracious.

Jodi Nevins
You know, so we were just all home. And we'd, I don't know, we tried to do fun things, or whatever we could they try. I don't know, I that time is very foggy for me, honestly. Um, but we had one child, like, wanted to talk about it all the time. And the other child didn't want to talk about it at all. And, you know, there's just that mixture of trying to accommodate for each of their needs. Yeah, and my own, and then also the family and friends calling and asking, "Are you okay?", and people bringing meals and, you know, things like that. Just, just, I like I said, I don't remember a lot of it, honestly. But, you know, it happened. And suddenly, we went back to school, we never went back to school full time, we only went back for a couple hours a day, until the rest of the school year, because at that point, it was the end of the school year. Yeah, they tried to fill it mostly with fun things for the kids. Okay, getting back to routine a little bit like going getting up and going to school. But then we pick them up before lunch. And so they never got to the time period in the day where the shooting happened.

Jennifer Uren
Okay, so the school knew enough to say academics we can catch up on but we've got to, we've got to help them, get back on the horse, so to speak, and come to school and get used to school and walk through those doors. So did your family, did, did anybody go through counseling? How did you process it, especially with the different styles, you know, with one wanting to talk and one not wanting to talk? And?

Jodi Nevins
Yeah, so it was it took us a few weeks to get into a mindset where we could even think about some of that. And we decided that we would go to a family session first and see a counselor to see where everybody was at. So that person could give us a little bit of direction as to where to go with each child. So we went together as a family. And then we honestly I didn't prefer that counselor. She was very much I don't know, she made it clear that she didn't think that it was good for kids to play with Nerf guns. And so I'm like, "Well, yeah", it was one of you know, one of our kids was didn't want to see guns and hadn't wanted nothing to do with him for a while. And now he does. He's back to Nerf guns and everything. But yeah, but at the time, you know, that was the case. But anyway, after that, I decided to find a counselor for each of the kids and for myself. And that took that was a long process. It took me probably until July or August to get everybody into a space where they felt. I felt like it was the right counselor for them. And, you know, again, one of them was like, I don't need counseling, you know leave me alone. I kind of forced him to go to a few sessions. And then one of them is still in counseling. Just he goes every other week. He's gone every other week for almost two years now. And but he's, you know, it's not necessarily about the shooting now. It's about other things, but it's no but it was something that through the counseling both all of them, different things came up that were deeper issues that just kind of came forward because of the camp. Shooting. Yeah.

Jennifer Uren
So I mean, obviously no one ever chooses to go through experiences like this. But you know, God often uses them to grow us or show us something that nobody could have learned or seen otherwise. So I mean, it sounds like that this being a catalyst to your kids seeing counselors may have been one of those things, but you know, what, what did God show you during the season?

Jodi Nevins
He showed me a lot it I think I took it the worst than anybody honestly. As a mom feeling out of control of your, your child's well being, I think I took the hardest hit. And it took me a long time to come to a place where it was probably six weeks or so after the shooting that I came to realize that I was really mad God for allowing it to happen. I just "Why? They're your children too! Why wouldn't you protect them?" And so I had this, like, I know he loves me. And I know he's gonna work this for good. Right now. I don't understand it. Yeah, it doesn't make sense my mom heart, it does not make sense at all that he didn't prevent this from happening. So when I saw when I was looking for a counselor, I knew that I needed to have a Christian and somebody that understood my heart. And the end was okay with my anger and my disappointment towards God. And I did, I found a wonderful counselor that he did, we did EMDR and... EMDR is where you have this pattern. And it's a just you go to kind of that hard place. And then after you're in that hard place, you, you talk about it a little bit, but then you continue with it and it's like this processing. He always said it act like you're on a train and the, you know, you're looking out the window, and everything's passing by, but you're like you're processing it, but you can't see everything in every detail. So but then as you process it, it was just amazing to see how what I saw as a perspective of "God didn't do his job" turn to "God was present there the entire time and he was taking care of my children". He was this protection over them. Even though I felt like they were unsafe, they felt unsafe in a lot of ways. He was comforting them, he was protecting them, it could have been so much worse than it was. And what I learned from God is that he is my protector. He is present. He does allow these things to happen. It happens because it's a fallen world. But he also uses these things as a catalyst to bring people to him.

Jennifer Uren
Yeah.

Jodi Nevins
And yes, he allows it, but it's, it's, I still can't quite grasp it. Right? I can't grasp...

Jennifer Uren
The difference between allow and cause

Jodi Nevins
Right, right, yes. But he does, like turn that perspective for too good. Yeah. And I'm in a miraculous, amazing way. And he does bring peace, beyond understanding. And he just he deepened my love for him. And during that process during that whole process, and just brought to the forefront some of my lies that I've believed for a long time. About him, about myself, about others, and brought a lot of healing.

Jennifer Uren
Wow. That's amazing. And going back to the EMDR. My understanding is that that removes the trauma triggers from an event so that it doesn't, it doesn't keep you in this cycle of this trauma patterns is that correct?

Jodi Nevins
Yeah, yeah. So at the very beginning, we would figure out what were my triggers, and throughout, I would add on to them sometimes and then like, you know, if that one's not there anymore, but you know, that first one was that conference room, I had a really hard time being in that conference room for a while.

Jennifer Uren
Sure.

Jodi Nevins
So but that's one of the first ones that we worked with, because I didn't want to go to work and have that been a trigger all the time. So but it Yeah, towards the as you process through that, and then at the end of a session, you go to a place that you choose, that is your place of comfort, you kind of put your stuff that's still yucky in a box, and you leave that for next time. And then you go to this place where you feel comfort and peace. And mine was walking on the beach with Jesus, footprints in the sand. And so at the end of the session, we would imagine that I was in that space. And that's how the session would end.

Jennifer Uren
Oh, that's a beautiful image. That's great. So what you experienced is really every mom's nightmare, you know? So how were you able to get back to that point of letting your kids leave you, leaving them somewhere, or letting them go back to school even for a couple hours?

Jodi Nevins
Oh, it was hard. I wanted to see my kids and be with them every moment. It was really, really hard. I think the two hours was doable. I mean at the beginning, but it was really you the drive line for the school was just tears of all these parents just tears flowing through all the cars and so we knew we weren't alone. There was a lot of that. And then we had summer, like summer came pretty quick. And I tell you, my, my oldest two went to Mexico on a missions trip. And about six or seven weeks after this, and I had gone on all of their trips before. And I decided not to go this year. And, and I can tell you at that airport, I was bawling, because I literally was letting them go to a different country where I have absolutely no way of getting them back very easily.

Jennifer Uren
Yes.

Jodi Nevins
And that was that was my really big, heartbreaking hard, really hard moment of letting them go. And, and then when school started, I was having panic attacks for a while there. I've just and my kids were mostly okay. I mean, they had hard days, and they wouldn't usually admit that it was probably from trauma. But they had hard days, it was a hard school year. It was a really hard school year. Okay.

Jennifer Uren
It wasn't even a full school year, because right COVID totally disrupted it.

Jodi Nevins
Right, just as we felt like the school because all the teachers were impacted. The administration, everybody in that building was impacted by this event. So everybody was experiencing trauma. And so that school year, like I felt like we finally were getting a rhythm and ok, everybody's getting into a healthy spot again, and then COVID hit.

Jennifer Uren
Did it bring the school close at like a you feel like a tight knit community because of the shared experience?

Jodi Nevins
We did? I would take COVID to kind of knocked that apart in a lot of ways. I mean, before that, I mean, we took on the STEM Strong, you know, and we got together a lot as a community, we would get our kids together in the parks after school each day and things like that. But I would say since COVID, it's kind of gotten canceled.

Jennifer Uren
Yeah.

Jodi Nevins
But yes, we had a lot of, I got to know some other moms through the experience. And just that shared experience is not one you want to have. But it's also one that you when you're having a conversation with somebody that hasn't experienced it. It's hard. It's hard. Sometimes, especially in the very beginning, when people would say well, but your kids are okay. Yeah, you should be grateful. Well, I am grateful that my kids are okay. But there's a lot more to it.

Jennifer Uren
Yes, yes. And you can take this now, I mean, this, this template of trauma, if you will, you can now understand the mom who had a miscarriage in a way you couldn't before because we say stupid things when we don't understand like, right, you know, I don't know all the stupid things that we say when we don't understand. And so it definitely...

Jodi Nevins
It definitely increases your empathy. And, and even in the smaller things and and the big things like all of it, you just realize how much it also brings up all the different things to be grateful for you're, you're grateful in a deeper way. Yeah. Because suddenly, like that, I don't know. And silly things. Sometimes when, you know, you get angry about this, that or whatever, with your kids, and suddenly, you know what they're having for lunch if it's not quite healthy enough for whatever for you, it doesn't matter as much anymore. I don't know, it just it causes some of the big things to become smaller. And in some of the small things that should be bigger to become bigger, like family time or things like that. But yeah,

Jennifer Uren
Yeah. So there's another blessing from it. It's shifted your perspective to value the right things.

Jodi Nevins
I would say that the first six to eight months after the shooting, we hardly like we did things as a family. But it was like we didn't talk to each other in the same ways, like family dinners, almost like, I think they were mostly gone. Because we they were just hard. Yeah. So it just we just didn't do it. For a long time, we would make food and we'd kind of wat quickly in the after spaces. But when we started bringing that back to like intentionally bringing that back, like we saw a difference. And now, I mean, through COVID we mostly didn't that didn't change for us, like a lot of people did, or whatever. But it was those became more important. But they were completely gone for a while at the same time because of the trauma.

Jennifer Uren
Yeah. Oh, well, and there's a gift pre COVID because you guys had worked through a lot of stuff with your family, and so you, you actually were good being together.

Jodi Nevins
Well, it was interesting too, because we immediately were, oh, this is trauma brain. Yeah, everybody's experiencing trauma brain right now. So, like, Oh, we recognize this, we know, to deal with this.

Jennifer Uren
Yeah.

Jodi Nevins
So I felt like we did have a one up on everybody else in some ways, because we we understood what was happening with our heads. And, oh, we're not functioning quite right. Oh, that's trauma brain.

Jennifer Uren
Yep. And you were able to, like you said, have that extra empathy for them. Because they don't know that's what, you know, it took a long time for people to recognize that there was a grief and there was, you know, trauma. And this wasn't just a, you know, now you wear a mask, get over it, you know, right. Well, it's about two years now removed from the event. And, you know, so what do things look like in your family? You've touched on it, you do a little bit more, but are you able to, in normal times now kind of function well, with being apart from each other? And live life normally.

Jodi Nevins
I don't worry, when I drop off my kids, I'm dropping them off again, because Emily is off at college. And I'm actually I enjoy it. I enjoy dropping them off. I think I would have a harder time if I were not, but maybe not actually, last year. I mean, it was, I got to have the big hug before they went off too. But I think I'm just much more intentional, with my time in the morning with them. And to there's not as many arguments, there's not as many tiffs around who's getting what ready for the day or whatever. Because it just doesn't matter in the same way. And so I would say our house is a little calmer than they used to be just because we know that we want to send our kids off with as much calm and as much like security and and love that we possibly can because we know that we may not see them at the end of the day. Yeah. And that's always in the back of our minds. It's always in the back of our minds that what if this is the day that something happens? Yeah. And, you know, as much as we, you hope that that never happens again. And we pray that never happens again. And we do all we can to not let it happen again. It's still a real possibility that I mean, with anything, whether it's a car accident, or Yeah, anything in life, nothing's guaranteed. So you just we're more intentional?

Jennifer Uren
Yeah. And most of us "know" that. But we don't know that and live it in a way that values our family to say, Yeah, no, I would, I would miss you. So what would you tell the mom who is listening? Who is fearful when it comes to her kids and is you know, doesn't want to let them go do things or go places? I mean, what would you tell her to help her let go a little bit or shift her perspective so that she can give them that freedom?

Jodi Nevins
I think there's a lot of that's one of the things that my kids taught me through this is Mom, I'm, I'm strong, I'm okay, I need to do this. Or they want to be strong, they want to be independent, they want to feel like you trust them, is a lot of it's around trust, in some ways, at least in the kid's mind. So as a mom, like taking that deep breath and saying, being that intentional morning and saying I love you, and trusting that God's got them, he does love them. Like they're his own because they are his own. He created them. So he loves them. He's got them. And you know even if the worst case scenario happens. He's gonna take care of you too. Yeah, there's always going to be something that brings hurt, whether it's a school shooting, or an accident or bad health in families, whatever it is, and if we stop, we can't stop, you know, living life. And yeah, you have to live life and live it to the fullest and look for the joy, look for those places where you can be together, but also, you know, yeah, now sending one to college like, letting go is part of the process. Yeah. And if you start younger, and in the hard times, knowing that they're safe, life will be easier and better for them, too. Yeah.

Jennifer Uren
And if it's a true anxiety, it would be totally appropriate to find a counselor to help through that process.

Jodi Nevins
Absolutely! I mean, if you're, if you're in a situation where you're dealing with that deep fear you Absolutely please go see a counselor because it made all the difference for me. And it. And there there are things that came up, like I said that were not even part of the shooting that I found healing in and that I was, there's a lot of fear associated in that the shooting triggered some of my earlier fears of things. So yeah counseling makes a huge difference. Absolutely.

Jennifer Uren
Well, that's great. Well, thank you for sharing the story. I know it's still fresh and raw and and hard. But I appreciate your sharing the healing and the hope. And this is always an awkward transition after a conversation like this, right? One of the things that I love to ask every guest, because I'm a gadget girl, but I love to ask everyone, what is your favorite gadget?

Jodi Nevins
Oh, and you gave me this ahead of time. And I have such a hard time because I love different gadgets. But I love to cook. So I'm in the kitchen. While not as much right now. But often, I would say it is as simple as the paring knife. I love the paring knife, because I use it constantly.

Jennifer Uren
And you have a specific one...specific brand. Or...?

Jodi Nevins
I actually the one that I love the most is missing right now. And is Chicago Brand that we got for me or when we got married. Okay, and I cannot find it. I'm so upset, I love that I love my little paring knife. And I have another one that has like this hook. And it's it's made for like slicing fruit and oh, peeling fruit and stuff like that, but it's curved just a little bit. And it's super sharp. And I love that one too.

Jennifer Uren
That's great. Yes. It's the simple pleasures, right? It's, and it's the right tool makes everything so much easier. Yeah. Yeah, I'd rather have 30 gadgets that do things well, then try to get by with one one knife that doesn't function well. So

Jodi Nevins
yes, yes. A good sharp knife makes all the difference.

Jennifer Uren
Well, Jodi, how can people connect with you? If they'd like to, you know, reach out or or get in touch? Is there a way that they can connect with you?

Jodi Nevins
Well, I'm not all over the place like Eric, but I, I am on Facebook. That's probably where I'm the most active is it's just Jodi then is Browne with an E is my main name. And then Nevins.

Jennifer Uren
Okay, and they could always message you there and you'll get that and your others folder and right. Yeah, absolutely. And then

Jodi Nevins
all right, I don't care [email protected] is my gmail.com email. And I'm always happy to take an email as well.

Jennifer Uren
So great. Well, I will include those things in the show notes. But thank you again for sharing your story and for you know, being open and vulnerable. And, and it was good to see you and good to catch up.

Jodi Nevins
You too. Thanks for having me.

 

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