Remember when your kids were little and you and your kids got together with all the other moms and their kids? When you had support and community? And then they became middle schoolers, and you found yourself a little bit more on the fringes with less mom community.

Kim Caifano from Middle School Mommer is with us today to talk about being a mom in these middle years as well as starting a business during and for the middle school years.

Resources Kim mentioned:

Episode 34 with Adriana Cagan on Living Your Priorities

Mom Walks series by Rebecca Prenevost

Connect with Kim on Facebook, Instagram, or her website where you can sign up for her conversation starter download

Kim's favorite time saving resource is her Roomba 

Hear it:

Watch it:

Read it:

This is a transcript of the This Mom Knows Podcast - Episode - 57

Jennifer Uren
Kim Caifano is a writer, speaker, and founder of MiddleschoolMommer. The middle school years can be lonely as a mom, but Kim loves to walk with moms through these formative years of parenting. Kim grew up in a small town of 647 people and moved straight to downtown Chicago after college graduation for a marketing job. Talk about culture shock. She currently lives in Geneva, Illinois with her husband and her three kids. So welcome, Kim.

Kim Caifano
Thank you. I'm so happy to be here with you.

Jennifer Uren
Oh, I'm so glad you can join us. So the bio told us quite a bit about you. But tell us a little bit more about your transition from you know, small town to the heart of Chicago. What was that like?

Kim Caifano
Yes, I always relay it to the movie Sweet Home Alabama, where Reese Witherspoon's character says, "when I'm in New York City, I feel like it's home. But then when I'm here, I feel like it's home, too." And that's I know, it sounds so odd that one could feel so comfortable in such different settings. But that's how I feel to this day. Like we actually have a trip planned - I still call it home - a trip planned home for this coming weekend and I always feel at home when I'm there. I loved growing up in a small town. It gave me a million experiences and opportunities that we don't all get today because you kind of have to pick you know that one or two things. And but then Chicago, oh my word, I did literally move to downtown Chicago and worked in downtown Chicago and loved it there too. And so now I'm in the western suburbs, and I just kind of daydream about you know, a job, maybe back in the city one day, so yeah, I don't know. I just I love them both.

Jennifer Uren
That's great. And tell us a little bit more about your family.

Kim Caifano
Yes. So I am married to Mark, he's in the landscape industry, he supplies hardscapes. So if you're ever like in a downtown area where you see beautiful brick pavers, or have the luxury to be at somebody's pool, where they have a nice pool deck, or that sort of thing. That's what he does, he provides the hardscapes. So we always I well, I don't know, if we I don't think it's all that interesting, but I do the fact that like, both of us are in such incredibly separate industries in terms of like he's in, you know, it's like manly, like he wears boots and drives a truck. And then I'm like, you know, doing things like this, but I'm like, I feel like we're doing a similar thing. You know, both of us it has to do with aesthetics. And you know, like, we care about how things look. And I don't know, so to me, it's a bit of a tie in,

Jennifer Uren
you're both really creating space for relationships to happen is Yeah, so that's

Kim Caifano
just kind of have an eye for beauty and things that will impact people, you know.

Jennifer Uren
Yeah. Well, today, we're gonna talk about something that you know, which is actually being a middle school mompreneur.

Kim Caifano
Yes.

Jennifer Uren
So um, so let's start a little bit tell me, like, how did you go from writer to a niche to business like this? Like did you just like writing in general? Or did you have a particular topic that was near and dear to your heart that that resulted in this or just tell me how you got started.

Kim Caifano
Well, I was not planning on it. To begin with, I in terms of like, you know, in the year 2019, I'm going to launch this. However, I had always been planning on it, looking back on it, you know, I had this notebook going of all these different ideas. And when my position at work got absorbed into another role, it was just this big culture shock. And so immediately, I went out and interviewed in different areas, got a couple of really good job offers. And you know, a final kind of, I always call it my dream job offer at this organization that I and I met the team I was four interviews in. But the the interesting thing was that I was hired to write to be the feature writer and write people- other people's stories. And I came home that night and I said to my husband, I don't think I want to spend 40 hours a week reading other people's stories, like I have too many of my own to share, and I you know, and I showed him my notebook, and he, I, he was supportive of whatever I wanted to do. And so, I had already been in touch with a marketing gal that had just launched a business, her own business and we had just had some conversations and I said, Alright, it's a go like we're doing this. And so overnight, we launched my website, I began writing, and then COVID hit. And so and I don't laugh, I don't mean to laugh, but it just was like, wow, that was interesting timing. By the end, it was kind of the perfect thing, because I needed an outlet still to do something creatively. So I launched Kim Caifano, but as you know, anything, anything creatively, take so much time, effort and energy. And after about four months, I was like, I this is not a hobby for me, like, I want to learn how to make money at this. So that was when we pulled in a writing business coach who we both know Brian Dixon, and he, I guided me towards like, well, this and also Hope*Writers, I joined Hope*Writers, and went step by step through all the videos in order to kind of learn like, Okay, how do you like, how do you take this to a business and very consistently, it was relayed to me, you need to find a niche, like, what is your niche, and I wanted it to be just faith. Like, I just talk about faith and things that are on my heart. And everybody was like, No, you have to like, narrow it down. So...

Jennifer Uren
that's a topic not a niche, right?

Kim Caifano
Yes, yes, exactly. So, um, when, when both I, the marketing gal, and then Brian, but they both kept saying, What about middle school moms? And I kept saying, no, no, that is my I'm in the middle of it. You know, I'm still I don't know, for sure what I'm doing. I have a 13 year old and a 10 year old, which was a really important part of my family that I didn't even say a minute ago. But yes, I have a 13, 10 and seven year old. And, and I just didn't feel qualified, you know. But then the more I processed and prayed about it, I thought, you know, I have, there's more to it than that. It's not just giving parenting, I try to not ever say advice. I try and say insights. But it's about what the mom is going through during this stage. And that is that I feel very qualified to speak on. Because I'm going through a lot of things right now, life looks a lot different during the middle school year or middle years of parenting compared to the baby and toddler years. So yes, that I felt very confident about.

Jennifer Uren
Yeah, well, that's great. Well, because I know a lot of writers, I've met a lot of writers, and I hear them all say, you know, I want I want to make an income doing this.

Kim Caifano
Yeah

Jennifer Uren
But rarely do they recognize that it's beyond selling a book

Kim Caifano
totally

Jennifer Uren
or that part of a bigger business. And so, so really, it was it was putting in the hours, it sounds like that you went, if I'm going to put in this app, these hours, I want this to be a business and I'm going to find the right people to help me build it into that.

Kim Caifano
100% Yeah. And I'll also add that we because I had been before that I you know I had, I've kind of done all I've been in the workplace. I've been in grad school, I've been a full fully, you know, like stay at home mom. And so I feel like I had known all the different worlds and the different pros and cons of the different worlds. And so I put kind of put everything together. And I was like, Well, I want I do want to be here. Ideally, I want to be here again when the kids get off the bus and that sort of thing. But I also want to make money. So what do you do about that? And I and I didn't want to be hired by a teller, you know, like a telemarketing agency. Not you know, nothing against that. But I just knew that wasn't God's wiring for me specifically. And so, you know, I was like, well, then I'm going to launch a business. So that's how we're gonna go about this. And now I have flexibility.

Jennifer Uren
Well, and that I mean, that describes the life I think of a mompreneur, which is very different than a work from home mom with an employer who's got set hours and responsibilities, or even the working mom who leaves the house because the mompreneur might be 90 minutes on work, an hour on the kids, you know, another hour on something for work. And it's it's a back and forth. So it's an integration that is very different than a lot of other work working scenarios.

Kim Caifano
It sure is.

Jennifer Uren
So now, how did your I mean, you've talked about how you joined Hope*Writers, you hired Brian Dixon. So you have this sense that if I'm going to take the time I'm putting in and turn it into something I need people to come alongside me and really help me do that. But you also have I mean your first job out of college was was in marketing. So you have a sense, an understanding, I should say, of how marketing really plays into things. How did that sort of inform your decisions and and drive your choices here?

Kim Caifano
That's a very good question. And nobody has ever asked me that. So thnk you. I feel like I do want to speak into that a little bit, because I think a lot of people think that perhaps because I hired a couple of people to help me that that's somehow I mean, people recognize my writing talent, but I'm like actually, a lot of it is just simply my drive my gut, my, you know, the experience in the last two decades. So it definitely has played a role like I definitely I love marketing and communications, I do love it. But I also, you know, I happen to step out of all of it right when social media came in. So like when Facebook launched, that was like, the like, basically, when I was having our my first child, our first child. And then I was one of the last people actually to join social media. I was like to never, never like, and then you know, then guess what, fast forward however many years and I'm the digital media coordinator who's like cutting up social media at, you know, an organization and

Jennifer Uren
yeah,

Kim Caifano
so I that was the biggest thing I recognize was that I didn't, I didn't have a strong grasp on that part of it. And but then also, truly, again, if you're going to make money at it, the most straightforward route, perhaps I think, in my mind was like, well, you write a book? Well, there's no, you know, that, first of all, that's hard to do. Much harder than people. I to this day, I'm astounded by how many people are like I wrote a book. I'm like, You did!?

Jennifer Uren
I know.

Kim Caifano
There's a lot that goes,

Jennifer Uren
There's like 4000 steps. I want to to it's published.

Unknown Speaker
Yeah. I mean, now now that I really understand that world. And then I also I just realized, I'm like, for me, it's more than just and I don't, again, I don't mean just writing a book. But I really realized that I wanted to be a brand. You know, like, whatever that looked like at the time. I thought Kim Caifano was the brand now it's kind of like well, you know, Kim Caifano, but Kim Caifano is a writer and a speaker, and she's the founder of Middle School Mommer. And so now that's kind of how I, how I operate and look at things. So I was just aware that the business aspect of things and the social media aspect of things are my two big areas where I needed help, and I needed to hire somebody to help me.

Jennifer Uren
That's excellent. And that's important. And so, you know, moms listening, recognize that, you know, the people who get things going, they're not doing it alone, they are asking for help. They're hiring the right people. It's not as effortless as it often looks like it is, you know,

Kim Caifano
oh my goodness.

Jennifer Uren
Yeah.

Kim Caifano
Anybody that you see that you are admiring I, I guarantee there's so much to their backstory that you do not realize that you do not see. And now there are a few of us. And I think you're one of them that like you have done, you have done it all. Like you figure it out, like you're a figure out kind of a person. And you kind of have to know your personality a little bit, and what stage of life you're in. And I don't think you're at the stage of life where you have any extra time than me by any means.

Jennifer Uren
I don't even know what stage of life I'm in. Because you know, I've got college grad in December and I've got kindergarteners that just started so I don't know what stage of life I'm in!

Kim Caifano
oh, well, I'm all I know is that you do not have extra time on your hands. But you figure it out. And I think there are those those people out there that just they love to dive in, figure it all out, take all the classes and courses. I will also say I have taken a lot of I am I am currently enrolled in probably about five different classes and courses I'm constantly learning so I think that is part of it. But I, I think one thing I want to say is that, you know, you do have to recognize if there is a gap, and if there's a gap, then that means perhaps you might need to hire it out or or just you know, have a circle of people around you that can help. And then you know we we happen to have a blessing of income that was expected. It wasn't a huge blessing, but it was a smallest thing. And we were like you know what, bless my husband's heart. He was like, let's put this towards your business. And that's how we that's how we did it. Okay, for most people, I would say you might go for a little while, like maybe just start to jot down all your ideas and just start just start with something while you're saving up, saving up, saving up, saving up, saving up, and then at a certain point, you know, press go and then that's when you bring that person in that can help you that you know and figure out who it is like who it is that you need to help you like is it essential Immediate person, is that a business person? You know, there's a lot of people out there that will try to pitch to you. And please don't sign on with that first person that tries to get your business, you know, just pay attention for a while, who are the voices that you're hearing pretty consistently. I've never signed on with anybody until I heard either from firsthand from somebody that are highly recommended. Or I just kept hearing about that person again and again and again. And then it was like, Okay, I'll sign up for her whatever, podcast lab or list to launch Lab, So, you know, it's like, once you hear those names again and again, then it's time.

Jennifer Uren
Well, tell us a little bit about your business, you know, you, you have a dual approach to serving your audience. So what is it that the moms of middle schoolers need and how do you help them?

Kim Caifano
Yes, and your observations are very, very good. So um, yes, I do have a dual approach. It's a little controversial, because some people view it as like you need to be, you know, all or nothing. Like I said, I feel as though I'm Kim Caifano, no matter what, I'm Kim Caifano, like I can't stop being myself. So I still have my own website, and I write about anything that comes to my heart. But I you know, that's it. So that's kind of the top tier, and then below that speaker, writer and founder of Middle School Mommer. And so, as the founder of Middle School Mommer. What I do and write about and speak about is, of course, middle school Mom topics, parent topics. So that is both parenting insights. So I do to the best of my ability at this point, because I have an eighth grader so I know a few things, and we have a very good relationship, but boy, we also have a lot of things going on in this household, you know, and so I write and speak into all of those I big, I have a lot of friends and that like I'm a big connector of of people and with people, so I, you know, I just kind of I listened in I, I really wish I had her books. Um, Jen, I believe I'm pronouncing her last name Probono has written mom, the mom walks series, about my tween years and kind of like baby sitters club version for moms. And I, I kind of joke with her, I'm like, I'm a little bit jealous of you, because you get to write about anything, because it's fiction, fictional characters, you know, I have to be a little careful, because I have a lot of things I want to say. But I have to be pretty clear. And I'm trying to protect my child, my children's privacy, you know, because I now I have I have a tween and a teen. So but I really do have two children that I would consider my in my demographic. And so I do offer the parenting insights, when and where I can. But then in addition, the bigger heart and the bigger passion behind my brand is, yes, middle school, parents, and I want to kind of stop saying parents, middle school moms are going through a lot. Middle School dads, I'm sure going through a number of things, but I think it's the moms more that are just like, whether they know it or not. And, and part of my thing is, like, I want you to acknowledge where you're at in life, because you you're probably going through a lot more than you're realizing, you know, like, so a lot of moms are greet, like, they're kind of grieving and missing those younger years, and they don't even know it, you know, and I think that's like, true, the first step is kind of saying like, Okay, goodbye, goodbye, you know, I guess we're not going to have those, you know, play play date evenings with Legos on the floor anymore, like, those are gone, like those years are gone. And, you know, just life gets so much busier. And rather than complaining about it all the time, trying to embrace it, and figure out your new systems and that sort of thing. And then you know, your relationship with your spouse, if there's a spouse, and the picture looks a lot different. And so how, you know, what are you going to do about that, you know, for, like I said, for us, like, it can't necessarily be a date night anymore. It's a walk, but we need time together. So that looks different. And then for one of the biggest pieces for me has been really trying to embrace the the busier schedule and figure out really, again, good systems around that, like, how do we when they walk in the door, and they have to get their homework done. And then within 20 minutes, we need to be dressed and out the door. Because we're headed logging. You know, you need to have thought about that. Not just then, but like, probably at about eight in the morning or even the night before, like, what's that fast dinner going to look like? So, you know, I think there's just so many adjustments, and very few moms, I think, recognize that. Some moms don't even need to, that's not their personality, they just go with the flow. For me, I'm more of like a processor and an observer, I'm kind of like, okay, I need to like take a step back, take a deep breath and be like, okay, like, I don't have any more diapers or pull ups in the house. You know, I'm kind of just like, Be okay with that, you know, my kids don't need me read to them anymore. You know, they still, we do still do that. But like, it just is so different. And I personally am one that misses that. Those those baby and toddler years, quite a lot. So there's just been a lot of processing for me in this season. And I know I'm not alone in that.

Jennifer Uren
Yeah. And I've I often say that the the younger years are physically demanding, but the older years are emotionally demanding. And you know, they still need their mom, they just need their mom in a different way. And you kind of alluded to this, I think where you you said I have to be more careful now with my my teen and tween with their privacy. That I think is one of the biggest changes I found when my kids went through middle school. And that made me feel a little more alone. Because when they were little I could just say, This is what's going on and help. And now I can't do that the same is that do you think that's one of the hardest things that the middle school moms face? Is this isolation or is there something else that's equally hard, I guess, during those years?

Kim Caifano
again, so it's like, oh, yes, I so before I launched the brand I did. I did a lot of market research and the studies were my own people. So I had, I had 21 women over the course of two different town halls, and then anonymous Google questionnaire that I sent out. And that was definitely one of the biggest themes is that middle school moms feel very alone. And it's partially because we do just scatter. You know, during these years. It's very different than those early years when you're having the playdates and that sort of thing. So that's part of it. But I also think everybody seems to imagine that they're the only one that is going through a certain scenario, and that is not the case. And that's, I will say, that's one of the common themes between Kim Caifano and Middle School Mommer, you will hear it said again, and again, you are not alone, you are not alone, you are not alone. And I mean that twofold. As a Christian, you're you're never alone, like God knows everything that's going on in your in your life. But also, like I have, so my graduate degree was in, I used to lead community groups, that sort of thing. And that's what I went to grad school for. So I have led and coached in whatever way too many small groups and community groups to know that like, like, everybody is going through something. And every middle school mom is going through something, and it's it all probably looks a little different. But there's also a lot of common themes. But anyway, you know, just in regard to the town halls, every mom that spoke up was like, it was, like a therapy session, and somebody said that they were like, I just feel like this was a really big therapy session. Because they were like, I thought I was the only one that was struggling with how to talk to my daughter about you know, sexuality, or I thought I was the only one that was having a hard time determining what to do in regard to technology, or, did you ever see the movie by with Mel Gibson starred in it What Women Want? And he has the ability to hear what's going on in every woman's mind. And so there's this one scene where he realizes that he has, you know, whatever power or whatever, and he's going through a run in the hearing or he's just been in a park face, hearing these women on walks and exercising and all the thoughts that are on going on in their heads. And that's what I felt like after the town halls, I was like, that was a lot, you know, like, you guys are all you're processing a lot and and it really verified for me that what I was about to launch was legit, you know, and needed. That little school moms feel they do feel isolated. They don't really have community, not consistent community. And so that's part of what I'm still trying to sort through like how to offer that. Because the other thing they also said was like, and I don't want it to be just virtual. I kind of I'm trying to figure that piece out. Because Middle School moms are the hardest audience in the world. I am in my

Jennifer Uren
Oh, yeah.

Kim Caifano
I'm sure other people would say no, actually, my audience is harder. But we're they we are busy, and nobody's available at the same time. Like, you know, I've played with different times to reach people with Instagram, right? Or whatever. And like, early morning, you know, great for this group and not this group and late evenings. Yep. No,

Jennifer Uren
Because middle schoolers can't drive themselves yet. So mom is still very, very much in demand when it comes to their burgeoning social schedule. So as as the Middle School mompreneur, like your business is unique because you are a middle school mompreneur, but you are serving, you know, middle school families. How did you, how did you build your build this in a way that integrated well around your own family? What was the biggest challenge that you faced, when it came to, you know, to integrating this new business with the needs of your family?

Kim Caifano
Um, you know, there is a lot of irony to it, because there are times actually right now, I just heard my middle school eighth grader walk in the door. And guess what, he's down there by himself while his mom works, you know and does a podcast interview. There are a lot of moments like that. So that that is tricky for me and I do battle the mom guilt but I I also believe really strongly that we as moms, one of my favorite episodes that I've listened to of yours is um, you interviewed somebody who had like, I don't know if it was a personal training business. And I love the theme of that interview because it was kind of you talked around the idea of that we as moms have the all or nothing mentality often. And that's not the healthiest, best way to go about it. It's often like no, the grass is always greener. Like, I almost everyday, I'm kind of like, I want to throw in the towel. I'm just gonna be home with you like I give up. But um, you you have to have like, I have such a Do I have the card here? Yes, I do. Um, I have a few cards that sit here with me. Okay, this is I would say the biggest one for me. I'm a little read backwards. Okay. Don't stop until you're proud. Don't stop until you're proud. I bought this for myself. And I'm not I'm not proud yet. You know, like, I I haven't all I know is I haven't quite gotten there. I hope there's a point where I feel that way. And then I hope I carry on. But I, I we have bumpy days, you know, there are bumpy days. And there are days where I feel like I'm failing as a parent. And the irony of that is quite incredible. Right? You know, because I'm the Middle Schooler Mommer, I should have it all together, you know,

Jennifer Uren
but it's all market research.

Kim Caifano
But you know, but that's, and I hope that's the beauty of my brand is that everybody that knows me as Kim Caifano, they know that if they see me, they're going to know what is on my heart and what I'm really thinking. And usually they don't even have to ask they can they see it on my face? I have, I don't know if you can see it. These two little lines here have been here since high school. Because I I'm always like a I'm a processor. And so you know, it's either a look of thinking really harder, or confusion. Maybe a combination of both. And so I yeah, I definitely am like a processor. And so I'm very aware when our household is not running the way that I want it to. And those are the days when I'm like I should give up. But I also Okay, I'm gonna give another movie illusion. The Three Amigos Do you remember when Steve Martin is that he's in jail, and he's trying to reach he's so he's into some. And he's trying to reach that, if this handled it, well release him. And he's like, he says something to the effect of like, I'm gonna make it, I'm gonna make it, I'm gonna make it. And there's something that's like pulling him back this whole way. And I think of that so often. Because I that's kind of how I feel. But I just keep that like that little scene from the three amigos in my mind, and I'm like, I am going to make it I am going I refuse to let this stop me because I've heard from way too many middle school parents that they need to hear. They need to hear from more voices during this stage of life. You know, those baby and toddler years, you hear you read so many books, and you get so much information coming at you. And it's like, well, what, where did that all go during the middle school years. And so that's a lot of my mission is I want to say I want to be there for the moms. And then I also want to say you're you're not alone, honey, like you are so not alone. Your feelings are very normal. And I I probably have had those feelings, you know, just just stick with me. And I'll let you know, you know, or I'll bring somebody I do a lot of interviews. I you know, I'll interview somebody and let you know what you're going through. You are not alone. So that's a big, big part of it for me.

Jennifer Uren
Yeah, well, that's very encouraging. So for the mompreneur listening who has a hobby or a passion and she she wants to move it from being just you know, something she does to an income stream? What is one simple step that you would suggest that she start doing today?

Kim Caifano
I would say just start and that sounds really vague, but what I mean by that is start writing things down. And I think I think probably, I would say just start on social media. Especially if you're not on social media and you're not comfortable with it. No matter what you do. I am sorry, but you have to be on social media - you do. And I am not one to I actually, the irony, again, of my job and roles has always been, I rely on social media, but it's also not my friend. Like, I'm not one that cares to wind down with scrolling and that sort of thing. But I also believe that pretty much no matter what you do, you need to just at least begin there. So especially if you're not one that has been posting regularly, just start posting. And you might think, Oh, I have nothing to post about. And plus, I don't know what my brand is, or what I'm going to be about that doesn't matter. It just get people used to you being present

Jennifer Uren
being present

Kim Caifano
in the digital world just get get used to people, you know, but post whatever's on your mind or heart for that day. And I think that's my, that's my acknowledgement. And you know, and perhaps it also includes just write things down, you know, as they come to you,

Jennifer Uren
Your ideas

Kim Caifano
because that's how I started was like it was a decade's worth of really, really dumb ideas really random as I go through and look back on some of those. I'm like, that was like the stupidest idea ever. But then I flip the page on like, that's brilliant. Like, when did I come across idea or when did I come up with that?

Jennifer Uren
Who am I? Yeah. Oh, that's excellent. Well, our time is coming to an end. And I think my favorite question to ask everybody, because I'm a gadget girl. Yeah. Um, what is your favorite time saving gadget system or tool?

Kim Caifano
Yes. Okay. Well, has anybody said the Roomba yet?

Jennifer Uren
No.

Kim Caifano
Really? Okay. Yeah. Now, this this is controversial. Because before we I asked for for Christmas two years ago, I asked my friends who were technology or clean freak? Geeks? I will say for lack of a better word. Yeah. And they were like, no, don't do the Roomba. But I personally am like, get the Roomba. You know, you have to maintain it. But for me, not only is it a tool to clean as long as you keep maintaining it, you do have to maintain it. But it helps me declutter my mind a little bit. So like yesterday was just a really frazzled day. And before I always babysat a little boy after school for an hour, and I knew that before the children walked in the door, I needed to have the house like, like we need to. So I put everything into, you know, the things that I knew that children were should be putting away themselves. I just chucked them in the laundry baskets pushed, you know, go on the Roomba. And then those nice clean carpet lines.

Jennifer Uren
Yes.

Kim Caifano
By the time they walk in the room like hello

Jennifer Uren
That's right.

Kim Caifano
and welcome home.

Jennifer Uren
Please don't walk on the carpet.

Kim Caifano
Yes. There's something about those lines. It's just like, and it's just the sound of it is a little bit.

Jennifer Uren
Yeah.

Kim Caifano
So yeah, that's my that's definitely my gadget.

Jennifer Uren
That's true. That's great. I love that. So. So Kim, tell us there's two things tell us how people can connect with you. And then tell us a little bit about an opt-in that you have for them.

Kim Caifano
Yes, so you can connect with me if you're interested in more writings on faith and female entrepreneurship in general families in general, then that's Kim Caifano, my last name is spelled C A I FA N O. KimCaifano.com is my website and then if you're a Middle School Parent and it's MiddleSchoolMommer.com with two M's and both of those are my handles pretty much everywhere. I'll usual Facebook, Instagram, Pinterest, etc. And then my my special offering is a conversation starter guide for middle schoolers. However, I will say it's really for elementary, middle school or high school if you have any child and so it's just conversation starters. Because sometimes like you crave that quality time and then you you get that time and then you're like How was your day? And they're like fine. Yeah. And then you're like

Jennifer Uren
What did you do? Nothing?

Kim Caifano
And then what did you learn stuff you know? So these are these are actually you know, conversation starters that will generate genuine conversation that maybe you don't come up with naturally so yeah,

Jennifer Uren
excellent. And so these are things that you should look at in advance and just sort of have in the back of your mind or is it more for like at dinnertime? Hey, let's pull out a question.

Kim Caifano
I would say either one you know we always do big um when we have a family dinner nights we have highs and lows you know what was the hot we always say you can choose a low and a high or you can choose two highs because bless our all our seven year olds heart he used to never have a low until he started kindergarten and then he started to have lows but um, so we kind of alternate between that. And then like, you know what, let's ask an interesting question and see where it takes us. And it usually, you know, takes Yeah, he is asked one question, and then it leads you to a number of different ways. So yeah.

Jennifer Uren
Wow. Well, Kim, thanks so much for being with us today. I really appreciate this was a great conversation and thank you for your time.

Kim Caifano
Thank you. And thank you for interviewing all sorts of moms on different topics. Like I always feel like I'm sitting in like having coffee like the lurker behind your shoulder.

Jennifer Uren
Well I'm glad. That's the goal. Yes.

Kim Caifano
I'm glad you're meeting your goal. So good job.

Jennifer Uren
Thank you.