Episode 58: Andrea Sager on Why You Need to Protect Your Business

business Mar 29, 2022
Andrea Sager knows why you need to protect your business

You're a mompreneur and your business is on it's way. But are your protecting your hard work?

Andrea Sager from Legalpreneur joins us to share why every business needs to have the right protections in place.

Connect with Andrea on FacebookInstagram, or her website where you can access her amazing contract vault and signature trademark course

Andrea's favorite time saving resource is Calendly

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This is a transcript of the This Mom Knows Podcast - Episode - 58

Jennifer Uren
Andrea Sager is a mom and lawyer who was frustrated with how things had always been done. In a world where the face of business was changing legal services were not. And as she met new business owners, her firm discouraged her from doing business with them because they were not high paying clients. Frustrated, Andrea set out to fill this gap of service and change her life in the process, allowing her to focus less on billable hours, and more on her kids. So welcome, Andrea.

Andrea Sager
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited about this.

Jennifer Uren
Yeah, I'm so glad you can join us. why don't you tell us a little bit about like, where you're from maybe a little bit about your family?

Andrea Sager
Yeah, so I'm from Houston, Texas. I actually lived in Kentucky for eight years, I went to college up there that I went to law school, worked for a year at the big firm that I thought was my dream job. But I actually had my first kid, which is my son, Thomas, we had him in my last year of law school. And that was actually strategic, because the plan was, Hey, you know, I'll be, you know, working at the big firm work my way up. And I had told my who is my husband at the time, hey, I'm not going to have a kid and my first few years of practice, so you know, we're gonna do it. We're gonna do it now before I start working. So we had Thomas, my last year of law school. And then I went to work. And of course, I was by far the youngest, who had a kid. And I just quickly realized, like, this is not, this is not my dream job. because number one, I barely saw my son. And then number two, I because I had another small business, I had a connection to a lot of business owners, and they didn't want to serve those small businesses. And after, after about seven months, I literally had a partner at the firm tell me, "Look, we don't want these clients, like they're not quality clients to us." And that's really just when I knew like, Okay, I think this is the universe trying to tell me something here because I have, you know, plenty of people coming to me asking for help, but I just can't help them here. So let me go out on my own and help them. So that's what I did. And at that time, who my ex husband, we were in Cincinnati, we were living in Kentucky. I was working in Cincinnati, Ohio, and we moved back down to Houston, and started my firm and all everything just happened. We started the firm. We had our daughter, Allie. And now she's two he's four. And yeah, that's here I am. Still, with the firm,

Jennifer Uren
That Cincinnati Kentucky thing can get really confusing if you don't know that it's on the border.

Andrea Sager
Exactly. And I have people tell me, like, I used to tell people, yeah, I live in Kentucky, but I work in Cincinnati. And they're like, what, what? How does that work?

Jennifer Uren
Like, it's not really a commute? Yeah. Yes. The first time I flew out of Cincinnati, and they discovered the airport was in Kentucky. I was a little confused.

Andrea Sager
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Jennifer Uren
Well, let's talk a little bit more about the thing that you know about, which is, you know, legal protection for online businesses. And so you've told me a little bit more about you know, what it was that got you started, but you started Legalpreneurs is what you call it

Andrea Sager
Yes. Yeah.

Jennifer Uren
And I love that name.

Andrea Sager
Yeah, so I have the law firm, which is Andrea Sager Law. And then, by working with a ton of small businesses, I immediately knew I did not want to charge hourly, for answering questions and doing this little thing or that little thing. Partly because hourly billing, to me, it's an archaic model. And at the end of the day, if you are proficient in one area, you shouldn't have to bill hourly, because you know, exactly, or about how long something's going to take you. And I didn't want to provide small businesses with surprise legal bills, which is always what happened at the big firm, half the time they would write the stuff off. So it's like, like, what's the whole point of this? And so I just started coming out with flat fee models for all the work that we did. And then I had a lot of clients just asking, they asked for the membership that I have now. They're like, Hey, is there some way where I can just ask you all my questions, or you just do this or that for me, and I just play one set fee. And I'm like, Hmm, I think there's something here. So finally, and honestly, I had like a lot of trademark clients, and then they would want to ask me normal business questions. And at the same time, it's like, Okay, this literally takes me five minutes to send them an email. I'm not going to charge for this email. But at the same time, all of these emails add up for me.

Jennifer Uren
Yes.

Andrea Sager
So that's exactly what happened with that's how the membership was built. Basically, with our legal printer membership, they you get unlimited emails, because at the end of the day, most people just want to email me anyway. And if it takes me 10 minutes a day, literally, I spend maybe an hour answering emails from Legalpreneur clients, and it's unlimited emails, you get one phone call a month, you get document review. So it's literally and there's other things involved. But it's literally everything a small business needs help with

Jennifer Uren
yes

Andrea Sager
rolled into one package. And it's the same fee every month, you're not getting any surprises,

Jennifer Uren
And just knowing it's doable like that, actually, that's half the stress right there.

Andrea Sager
Exactly.

Jennifer Uren
So yeah, cuz you'll see something you're like, ah, who do I ask, you know, so to be able to say, oh, not a problem, let me call my lawyer. It makes you feel important, too, right?

Andrea Sager
Absolutely

Jennifer Uren
So ultimately, you traded, you traded time at the law firm for time with your family? Because now I mean, like you said, it's kind of scalable, and people, people are paying for peace of mind more so than they are actually paying for legal services.

Andrea Sager
Exactly.

Jennifer Uren
So at the beginning, and I think I think you answered this, but it wasn't an immediate improvement for your family, like you have this side business, you said, where you would knew these business owners. So were you able to pretty much shift into doing this without missing a beat? Or did you kind of have to start at the beginning and really, you know, convince people to come over and work into building this new practice?

Andrea Sager
Yeah, so I was very, very fortunate because I so I owned a clothing boutique, it was an online clothing boutique, we branched into a brick and mortar store. But we ended up selling everything once I started at the big firm. Because at that point, I was like, Okay, this isn't like I've enjoyed this, but it's not what I want to do for the rest of my life. So we sold that. But I still had really strong community ties. And they were constantly coming to me. And finally I told them, Look, don't come to me right now, while I'm at the firm, I am planning to leave. And so when that happens, then I can help all of you. So literally, the day so I don't even know if I mentioned this, but I actually got fired. Like I think it was just the universe like okay, it is your time to go. And they actually they offered me a severance package. So it was just a blessing because I could I had a runway to start my firm and not be stressed because my ex was staying home with our son at the time. So I literally was the only one bringing in money. But I got the severance package. That was how we, you know, had everything to hold us over until we got to Houston really just were settled. And what happened was that night that I got fired, I posted in one of these Facebook groups where a lot of the community was, and I was like, hey, it's official, like I'm on my own data. And immediately I just had I had my first client, I had work here work there, and I had no idea what I was doing. I was like I knew enough to get going. But it was at the end of the day, I look back and I'm like, I have no idea like how I survived that time and how I made it work. But you know, when when your backs against the wall, you find a way to make it work.

Jennifer Uren
Yeah. And when sometimes when you don't have a plan or expectations, it's actually better because you're not disappointed or frustrated when it doesn't follow that plan. So...

Andrea Sager
Exactly

Jennifer Uren
...that was probably a good, good way to transition. Yeah. So really, you are an expert in the invisible aspect of business, which is really protection. Yep. And you know, most of the time, I think, I think it's it's either legal or it's insurance, right? Is that protection that we need? But the online space? It seems like if the need for it is even less obvious than it is in a traditional business, especially brick and mortar. And I can't tell you how many times I have interacted with people who have been like, well, we're friends online, why can't I trust them? Or if I can't do business with the handshake, I don't want to do business. And I'm thinking, I know that's not how you live your life for real. So why, why would an online business even if it's more like a monetized hobby, you know, an Etsy shop or something like that, why do they need to think about some of these protections?

Andrea Sager
Yeah, so a lot of times what I tell clients or even my audience is, especially as an online business owner, your most valuable asset is intellectual property. And it may not be something that you can really see the value because it is intellectual property. It's not a it's not something that you may necessarily have a monetary value on because it's not something tangible, but it's your most valuable asset and how I really like illustrate it is, look if Nike, this would never happen. But if Nike, a billion dollar brand, they had all of their products in one warehouse. And that warehouse caught on fire and destroyed all of their inventory for the whole brand across the across the world, everything was ruined. Would Nike be ruined? No, absolutely not. Why? Because even though they don't have product in hand, everybody knows who Nike is, everybody knows the swoosh, everybody knows the products that they make the value, the quality of their products, their brand. That's what is that's where the value is, the products that they sell, honestly, are just happenstance. The products that they sell, like, yeah, that's what brings in the money. But that's the products themselves aren't what is today, the brand, it's the whole community that they have around their brand, the the intrinsic value of the swoosh, everybody knows the Nike swoosh. That's intellectual property. The more valuable your, your brand is most likely the more intellectual property you have, because you don't have to have products to sell to have a brand but the IP that you have, that's what you really have to protect, and eventually monetize. And why do you need to protect is because it can be stolen. And just like your physical products can be stolen, your intellectual property can be stolen. And if you don't protect it, eventually, you'll no longer have rights. So if you want to maintain the rights that you have, or the rights that you think you have, you need to make sure you are protecting and enforcing the rights that you have.

Jennifer Uren
That makes sense. It's interesting that you use Nike as an example, because there is a town one of our neighboring suburbs, there was a missile site here years ago, the Nike missile site, and it has been converted into soccer fields. And so they were gonna call it the Nike athletic fields. And they were sued by Nike because of the branding. Even though the name was not anything to do with the athletic apparel, because they were sports fields, they they said it'll, it'll be an implied sponsorship or something. Yeah, we don't want our name on there. So actually, yeah, that's interesting. So who, who does Legalpreneur serve? I mean, I'm a podcaster trying to build, you know, a paid business model and working on building. Is it just the person who is monetized now? Or is it, like when when do you want to tap into protecting some of this intellectual property?

Andrea Sager
Yeah, great question. So the Legalpreneur membership is for any business owners any soon to be business owners, and any hobbyists, especially podcasters. It is really because as a podcaster, everything you create is intellectual property. And even if it's not monetized, you still need to protect it, because at the end of the day, you want it to be monetized just like you said. And if you don't do the work at the beginning to protect it, then down the road, when you are ready to monetize or somebody is ready to give you sponsorship money, it may come back to hurt you because you didn't put do the work up front to protect it. Because I'll specifically speak to podcasters. And, number one, your podcast name. That the the names of things in your business that's protected with the trademark. So your podcast name, you have to make sure you're not infringing on anybody else's trademark. And eventually you want to file a trademark application to get that protection. And then your content inside of your podcast that's protected with the copyright. And we actually don't file a lot of copyrights for podcasters. We do it, it's just not something that we regularly do only because we have we just haven't seen a lot of I guess podcast episodes being infringed upon. So normally what we see is a podcaster that's using music that they shouldn't be

Jennifer Uren
okay

Andrea Sager
as their intro music, outro music, or playing clips of something in their podcast that they shouldn't like that's copyright infringement. That's normally where we see infringement with podcasters as far as copyrights go. And then trademark infringement I would say is the biggest for podcasters the name normally if we see trademark infringement, it has to do with the name of the podcast,

Jennifer Uren
Okay, okay.. So and that's worth checking before you name your podcast. There's an example where even if you're just gonna do this for fun, you want to make sure that it's exactly for you to use

Andrea Sager
Exactly. Because even if it's a hobby, and you're like, Oh, this is just my creative outlet, and you want to call it ABC podcast, okay, well, what if Amazon has ABC podcasts? They're, they're not going to let you slide, even if you're not making money, because you're going to be stealing it when it comes to podcasting. It's not about, oh, are they actually making money? It's a matter of Oh, are our listeners finding their podcasts and listening to theirs instead of ours. That's where it's trademark infringement with podcasting. So even if you're not making money, it can still be trademark infringement, and you can still get sued for it.

Jennifer Uren
Got it. Okay. So is Legalpreneur is are you really geared for the online business? Are you the small business? I mean, could I be a brick and mortar store and use Legalpreneur services?

Andrea Sager
Yeah, absolutely. The small business for sure. And that's where we've kind of had not trouble but where we've questioned, okay, who are we marketing this to? Like, yes, we have a ton of online business owners. But really, at the end of the day, we serve small businesses, because we have a ton of brick and mortars, mortar business owners. And that's, and that's how I started, I had a brick and mortar business. So we serve both online brick and mortar. I like to say we're a full service firm for small businesses. So anything a small business needs, typically we can help help out.

Jennifer Uren
Okay, well, that's good to know. That's because because in my mind, as a, you know, online service, I had sort of assumed it was for the online businesses.

Andrea Sager
Yeah, exactly

Jennifer Uren
I'm glad you clarified that. So as you shifted into this, really, you are an online practice, though, still, in many ways.

Andrea Sager
Yep.

Jennifer Uren
What was the hardest thing that you faced when it came to integrating, you know, building this business in this practice with home and family?

Andrea Sager
Good question. So one of my biggest things has been separating my workspace because it's like, oh, I work from home. Oh, I actually do everything from here. So over the years, I've learned to have a dedicated workplace. And I'll change it up. Because sometimes, when I first started, I just worked from the couch. And it's like, I'd literally have to get up and move because I've been sitting here all day on this laptop. And funny story, actually, right now I'm on my desktop because I left my laptop at an airport. Yeah, it is getting returned to me. I will say that they found it. They googled me, and it is on its way back to me, thankfully. But I, I've really had to learn to separate and, and I'm very intentional about my time with as far as like, Okay, this is work time. All I'm doing is working. Separate that with, okay, kids are home, I will not work when my kids are home. That's something that I've been very, very strict with. Weekends, I don't work weekends at all. So somebody messages me on the weekend, as far as if it comes to work, they don't hear from me until Monday. And that's because I really want to make sure I'm present with the kids. I will say that one thing that I want to get better at and need to get better at is like when the kids have something during the day there because that was my thing. Like oh, I want to be available to do whatever they have going on. Or if there's something that I want to take them to during the day, I need to go do that with them. But I also have have/had a local, another local business. And that took up a lot of my time. It was a very fruitful business. We did great. But it was that time balancing with the kids. It's like this is too much like it's not worth this money to sacrifice all the time with the kids. So with my son, he started baseball this past year, and with the other business that I had. I had to miss I had to miss a couple things like I had to miss practice here and there. I don't think I missed any games. Maybe I think I may have been out of town for like one game or something. But I am very intentional about if I'm going to be on a trip. Okay. Is this going to really increase the bottom line? Or is this more of a something that can wait something that I can do in the future? So if I miss something for the kids, because I'm out of town, it's something that's very, very meaningful to the business. So yeah, that's that's kind of my stance.

Jennifer Uren
Yeah. And that's good. And your kids are still at an age where being physically present is what is the biggest demand and as they get into school, it'll be you know, that emotional presence, which still requires you to be around but there's a little more give. You can be, I'm going to call you tonight or so I commend you because that these are the years where it's tiring and it feels like sometimes it's just easier to you know, work at night or put the TV on for them or something.

Andrea Sager
Right. And when I was with their dads still, so we're divorced now, but when I was still with their dad, like, we had a very strict routine where it's like, okay, he comes home from work, we, you know, have a couple of hours with the kids and then put them to bed and then I would just go back to work. I would work from home the rest of the night, but now I finally was just like, tired of working so much.

Jennifer Uren
I gotta sleep, I gotta watch something.

Andrea Sager
I know, like, sometimes it's just like, man, I want to be mindless and watch TV. So I I no longer work after I put the kids to bed, and that's just for me. I have it in a lot of times. There's just things that I didn't need to be doing anyway. Like, I have a team Andrea, you need to outsource delegate this.

Jennifer Uren
Yes.

Andrea Sager
Um,

Jennifer Uren
So how did that go? When did you? When did you know I needed to add because you have a substantial team? I mean, what? Seven? Eight people? I think

Yes, yeah, we have a team. I think it is at about eight right now. Okay. And I hired my first assistant or paralegal about eight months after I started the firm, and she's still with me today, Cassie, she's amazing. And she, I basically was like, "Okay, I need help. I don't know exactly what I need help with. But I just need somebody that can figure stuff out." She's like, "Okay, I'm here." And so she's, um, she can literally she's in my email for me all day. A lot of times I'm not in my email, because I get hundreds of emails a day. So she answers a lot of emails for me. And then she can pretty much run the firm herself if I needed her to.

That's great. So you did you put a trigger into place? Do you have something that says, Ah, we're now spending too much time we need another person? Or how do you how did you kind of figure out when it was time?

Andrea Sager
Um, honestly, I don't even know. I cuz I everybody on my team is remote. I don't even have them track their time. It's just because I've done every role. I've done everything in the business. I see everything incoming, everything outgoing. And I can just in my head, just make that determination. Okay, we're, you know, we I see this many clients coming in, like, I'll check in with an app for everybody like, Hey, how are you doing? How's you know, are you swamped? Are you overworked? What's going on? And that's worked really well. And I think we're at a good place now, where we have good systems and a full team in place. And now it's to the point like if somebody leaves, somebody else can cover with no issue.

Jennifer Uren
Yes, good systems make...

Andrea Sager
Yeah.

Jennifer Uren
...all the difference when it comes to that.

Andrea Sager
Yeah. So it's been it's just been a process. nailing down everybody's roles and figuring out, okay, this is what your job is like, this is what you're supposed to be doing. Because when I hire somebody, it's like, okay, we need more help. This is what I think you're going to be doing. But that may change because we're brand new, or still a new business and don't know everything.

Jennifer Uren
Yeah, well, that and that's an exciting place to be as long as you can be flexible to go, Well, sure. We'll, we'll grow and flex and figure this out as we go. That's fun. Yeah.

Andrea Sager
And that's been my biggest. The biggest thing when hiring is finding those people that are flexible, people that can just figure things out. And I remember when I hired Cassie, my first employee, I told her I'm like, I just need somebody that can figure things out. Like if I tell you I want x done don't come to me and say, Okay, well how do I do this? How do I do it?

Jennifer Uren
Right

Andrea Sager
Go figure it out. Like I don't know if I if I knew if I wanted to explain it to you

Jennifer Uren
Yeah

Andrea Sager
I would just do it myself.

Jennifer Uren
Yes.

Andrea Sager
Umm

Jennifer Uren
Someone who can own it without overstepping the bounds of you know taking authority where they don't have it.

Andrea Sager
Right, and I've told my I've, I've told my team because I've seen like when people have struggled to make those decisions or to just do things, I'm like, Look, I'm putting trust in you. If you mess up, that's okay. Like that's on me, because I didn't tell you how to do this. I didn't tell you exactly how I wanted this done. I just want it done. You do it. If I want it done differently, then I'll tell you something, but it's not me being mad. It's just me saying, Hey, I see that you did it this way. Let's try it this way and see how it works.

Jennifer Uren
Yes, debrief and recalibrate.

Andrea Sager
Exactly, yep!

Jennifer Uren
Yeah. That's excellent. So what is one thing outside of bringing on a team? Maybe a resource you stumbled on? Or a practice you implemented? But what is something you did that helped you keep the priorities of home and business in check? And you mentioned, you know, being clear on how to use your time? I know at one point, I think I've heard you talk about how using a PR person was really helpful in in getting new clients and visibility, which brings some issues. So as you grew, what what was it that really helps you keep your priorities of grow the business, be there for my kids? Be able to keep that in check?

Andrea Sager
Um, that's a really good question. I don't know. Um, I think, honestly, just having the kids and this is gonna sound really sad. But honestly, I think leaving their dad really helped me, step up to the plate. And so not once I made the decision to leave, I knew "Hey, it's on" which this is not me saying he's a bad guy. He's a great dad, I tell I tell my friends All the time. Like, as far as baby daddies go, I feel like I hit the jackpot. Because I see friends who just have awful, you know? Yeah. And, and they really are living the single parent life. I do not feel like I'm living a true single parent life, because we very much are very involved co parents, but just knowing Okay, I have to, like, take responsibility for these things. I have to do these things. It's I'm not going to rely on him or anyone else to get these things done. And when it comes to the kids, like I have to be very intentional with my time,

Jennifer Uren
Yes, yes. Yeah. And and when you are the parent at home, that does shift itbecause you you don't have that help there to lean into.

Andrea Sager
Right, right? And I don't even like saying I'm a single mom, because yes, I'm single. Yes, I'm a mom. But I'm not a single mom, if that makes sense. Because we are very, I just like to say I'm, we're co parenting like we very much so like he has them half the time I have them half the time. Yeah. And I just feel like in my head, a single parent is they always have their kids.

Jennifer Uren
right. And that's a real gift to your kids

Andrea Sager
it is, it is

Jennifer Uren
that it's a gift to your kids and to you too. But it is a gift to your kids that they get mom and dad and it's not a battleground. So so well done on that.

Andrea Sager
Thank you, thank you.

Jennifer Uren
Well for the mompreneur listening, who does worry kind of about protecting her ideas and this kind of stuff? What is one simple step that she could take to get started? You know, do you have I know you have a podcast that people can listen to you? Do you have any resources on your website? Do you have anything that explains what you do? What, what could she do?

Andrea Sager
Yes. So definitely listen to the podcast, the Legalpreneur podcast, I educate, I will bet any amount of money and said I'm probably one I probably educate my audience more than any other attorney out there. Because my thing is, look, you were not groomed for your position as a solopreneur, the CEO of your business. And when I say solopreneur, like you weren't groomed to have to wear all these hats, right? But you do have to because it's a small business. And in my eyes, it's like, Look, I don't care if you hire me or my firm, but you still have to be educated to even know what you need. So how am I going to tell you hey, you need to hire me to file your trademark application or to file your LLC if you don't even know how it benefits you you don't even know what it does. You don't even know how like what it's supposed to do for your business. So we educate, and we teach all of that stuff, everything you need, how it benefits you what it does for your business. We do that for free on the podcast, on social media, we have free trainings, it's all all the education is for free. And then at that point, you make the decision. Okay, do I want to do this myself DIY it and even if you do, like, I give you the resources to do that on your own. Or do I just want to hand it off to the experts and have somebody handle it for me. So we educate for free find, you know, you can put it all together, you just listen to the podcast, go to Instagram, take on TikTok. Everything is out there for free. You just have to go and put in the work to listen and find it.

Jennifer Uren
Yeah. And that's great. It's good that you can be like, you know, hey, go listen, the podcast 47, because that's going to explain about this or whatever. So I think that's great that you got the education out there. Because it's very, it can be very hard to have a conversation. And go, I know, I'm good at what I do. But I don't know anything about this. And so that

Andrea Sager
Exactly

Jennifer Uren
fear of the unknown or that uncomfortableness of not understanding can often be that big barrier to moving forward. So yeah,

Andrea Sager
and I'll tell you like, because and because we educate so much, and we educate everything for free. That gives me the confidence to charge what I charge for my services, or even because now if somebody comes to me, and they're like, "Hey, I have this question" or and I say, hey, book a consult here, and like, Oh, we can't just answer this. And I'm like, you can go find the answer on the podcast, you can do this. Like it's out there for free. So if you want my time, then you have to pay for it. Because without the education, I think I would more understand like, okay, yeah, let me help you out here. But it's all out there. Yeah. So now I'm just like,

Jennifer Uren
now you want hand holding that a different

Andrea Sager
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Jennifer Uren
Differnt stage. Oh, well, this is great. And I will say Legalpreneur has been really helpful where I think because of COVID everybody in their uncle is trademarking. And so what was I think at one point, a three month process has turned into, you know, it feels like a full year. but it's been really nice to have the contract vault and all these places to look and, and not feel like I'm creating things from scratch or crazy for wanting to do it. The, the one thing I get pushback on from so many in the podcast community is, why do you have a guest release form? And I'm like, because I it's just why not? And exactly. They don't want to do it or ask for it. And I think anyways, you make it so easy to do all of those things. So I think that's great.

Andrea Sager
Thank you

Jennifer Uren
Well, as we wrap up, one thing I ask every guest is a little bit light hearted. But I'm a gadget girl, I love systems and tools and anything to make life easy. So what is your favorite time saving gadget, system, or tool?

Andrea Sager
Calendly

Jennifer Uren
Okay,

Andrea Sager
Calendly.com because I can just send, you know, people like Hey, can I schedule a consult? Like when are you available? Hey, schedule a call here. Has my availability on there? And I know like, yeah, yeah, that is the best tool out there.

Jennifer Uren
That's wonderful. Yes, it simplifies so much and takes away all the back and forth of well what does your Tuesday look like?

Andrea Sager
Yeah, exactly.

Jennifer Uren
Yes. Especially with you get having a team, then you don't have to you you minimize the risk of double booking too.

Andrea Sager
Exactly Yep, yeah,

Jennifer Uren
that's great. Well, how can people find you?

Andrea Sager
You can find me and my website AndreaSager.com. Instagram @AndreaSagerLaw, and then on TikTok at the Legalpreneur.

Jennifer Uren
Okay, excellent. Well, thank you so much for being here today. And I appreciate I appreciate your example of building this unique firm and being a mom, but I also appreciate the services that you offer. So thank you.

Andrea Sager
Thank you.

 

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