Heather Greco wants to help moms overcome their own objections so they can live the life they want to live, start that business they've always wanted, and embrace their role as mom without letting it define who they are.

And she wants to help you, too.

Connect with Heather on Instagram, Facebook, or her website.

Resources Mentioned

● Chaos n’ Cookies Family Playbook  
● Chaos n’ Cookies Podcast  
● No-Problem Parenting Book  
● Free Pocket Playbook

Heather's favorite time saving gadget are her hourglass timers  

Hear it:

Watch it:

Read it:

This is a transcript of the This Mom Knows Podcast - Episode - 69

Jennifer Uren
Heather Greco is our guest today. She's the founder of Chaos 'n Cookies, where she encourages moms to embrace their role without letting it define who they are. As a busy mom of three, keeping moms from crumbling is her main objective. And for over 10 years, she was a director of marketing, helping build multiple six and seven figure businesses for other women. Out of that experience, she created the Chaos Control System to equip moms to overcome their own objections so they can live the life they want to live and even start that business they've always wanted. And she wants to help you too. Welcome, Heather. I'm looking forward to our conversation today.

Heather Greco
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Jennifer Uren
Excellent. Well, you can't have cookies in the name of your business and not have a sweet tooth. So what's your favorite cookie and why?

Heather Greco
Oh so funny, this is the icebreaker that I ask of my guest on my podcast, and it's so fun to find out, so, I know I really never get asked. I like, I mean the simpleton and the chocolate chip lover but I like it soft and not the crunchy one, I think that I stick to the classic for sure but peanut butter is a close second so,

Jennifer Uren
Okay. Okay, and I even prefer the cookie in the dough form sometimes.

Heather Greco
Oh, so I am guilty of buying the Nestle-like edible dough.

Jennifer Uren
Yes.

Heather Greco
Yeah, I, yeah, I'm guilty, I'll sit there and I can't eat the whole thing because it just so heavy But yes. So

Jennifer Uren
It just hits the spot sometimes.

Heather Greco
It does. Absolutely.

Jennifer Uren
Well, when you do have time for you besides eating the cookie dough? What is your favorite thing to do?

Heather Greco
I get really excited when I get my workout in. Honestly, I work out not really more than 30 minutes. But I really liked an uninterrupted workout without phones, without children, without people knocking on the door. I just like to just get it in and be done so that's a sense of accomplishment for me when I can get that done. And then because I have to do it in the morning, if it creeps up to 11 o'clock. There's probably no way I'm getting it in.

Jennifer Uren
Yeah. Well, and you're right. When you have kids, just that 30 minute accomplished, that is a huge accomplishment. We joke how many times can we pause a 45 minute episode, I mean, you know, it's it's constant interruptions, right?

Heather Greco
For sure. I typically will do it right after I dropped them off at school and then I will come in and just go out have my workout clothes on when I take them to school, I try really hard to get out of sweatpants to do it. So then I can just walk inside go straight to my closet and and bang it out

Jennifer Uren
You're good to go. Yeah.

Heather Greco
I feel like if I have to stop and do some things before I'll get distracted or, and then it ends up kind of messing up my, my flow but finding the best time to do it for you.

Jennifer Uren
That's excellent. Well, we're going to talk today about the thing that you know, which is being more than a mom. And I love your mission and I love how you present it because it, it aligns really well with how we do things around here. From simple systems to who we are as individuals, there's an affinity for sure. And one of those is this idea that you have so eloquently put that the word mom tends to define us instead of becoming a role that we play. And you know, around here, we're strong believers that being a mom is one of the most impactful responsibilities you can ever have and yet at the same time, you are more than a mom. So tell me more about how Chaos 'n Cookies got it start with all of this.

Heather Greco
Oh, so originally, and now a lot of people know this, I personally started my business to make my way out of my marriage, it wasn't exactly the best of situations. And so I wanted to use it as a way to empower myself and also to create wealth for me. So it would allow me to make the steps that I wanted to make without the cloudiness of, of being reliant on somebody else financially. And so I originally created it to make moves for me and my children. And in order to do that, it takes a lot of discipline and a lot of you know, you really have to make some hard fast decisions on how to be the more you know, productive and really make it work quicker. And so by doing that I learned different things to help with time management, and really make some systems at home so I could focus more on the business and really driving it forward and just being super hyper vigilant about it. So helping things work in a way where it gives me less stress at home with my kids or at the time with my ex spouse and trying to make things more self sufficient. And so by doing that, it projected and everyone looked at it when I was promoting my business as like, systems procedures, I do everything, how are you managing it all. And it was exactly that trying to make sure I fit it all in without you know missing a beat.

Jennifer Uren
Yes.

Heather Greco
And I really wanted to create a space for moms to take away the excuses like, I don't have time to do that, or I got back into health and wellness after I left my job in legal to stay at home with the kids. And so I heard a lot from other clients that were helping wellness, I don't have time to be healthy, I don't have time to do that. How do I find the time or make that easier for me or not feel guilty? That's where Chaos 'n Cookies was born and then creating systems from there.

Jennifer Uren
Yeah, well, I love that because for a lot of moms, it's the responsibilities of home that hold them back, and they've got a full plate. And so it's not that they don't have the time to do these things, they don't have the energy to go through that learning curve to figure out the new thing, right? And I believe that when your home works, well, then you can too. And that starts with the simple systems, like what you're talking about. Now, with three little kids, and this thriving online business, what systems did you start with, especially back at the beginning to create that space and make that shift.

Heather Greco
So for the business side of things, automation is key, the things that you don't have to manually do, I mean, it takes up so much time and space, because it's an extra to do item. So really focusing on getting my systems for my business in place, whether I was ready for them or not, at least having them because when you are starting a business, you don't see a lot at the beginning, right? It's you build momentum, and one day will just boom, and then it's gonna flood at you. And then you're gonna say I wish I had these things, or you end up getting growing pains, and you're not equipped for everything that you've been trying to accomplish is finally happening. And then you might not be able to deliver. And so investing ahead of time, and making sure I had a good newsletter or an automated system where my website would talk to my newsletter or my ordering system, that that key piece in just getting someone to help me with that just took upon, took a different level, because now I'm like hey when someone does order, or when I finally do make that link live, it's going to work. And I know it's ready, and I can just focus on promotion. So getting systems in place. And then at home, I've got little ones, my oldest is now nine. And when I started this business, he was around six,

Jennifer Uren
Okay.

Heather Greco
"It was mommy, this mommy that" I was, we were also in bits of COVID. Right? So they're home from school doing nothing like there's nothing, there's no help that you can bring in because everyone was freaked out about bringing people in their house. So creating systems around getting them ready for school. So I ended up contributing a chapter to a no problem parenting book, and it's the three C's. And that's the system that you can put in place at home that's can run itself or works into a busy life schedule.

Jennifer Uren
Yeah. Because when you kind of gives that structure that you can you can build upon so then you can pivot when you need to because you're not spending all your energy trying to do those basic things because they're semi-automated, right?

Heather Greco
Yes, it's like habit stacking and things and I'll be honest, I wish I could implement it a little bit better at my house during you know, but it's a little crazy with life changes and shifts. So you know, giving some, some grace but I know that the, the you know, the structure is there. First thing is like with kids in like morning time, I'm not a morning person. If you know me or followed me for a long time then you know I'm not a morning person trying to be I'm working on it slowly. But knowing that about myself then creating things around that weakness, I would say so my kids would come out or they would be still running around with like, no bottoms on or you know, telling me they could they,they're in shorts and it's freezing outside. And so each of them have a hanging shelf in their closets, just the cloth ones that have like different sections. And we put Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday clothing in there, so then it's prepared for any funky week like a themed week or we look at the weather. You know they all have different PE days making sure everything is set and we have everything so that way in the morning I can either grab Monday and put it on their dresser and it's there or they can go and grab it so I'm not arguing with them in the morning. I'm not saying like what on earth are you wearing like, it's great, you know, 60 degrees, you know, I live in Texas 60 degrees is chilly. So it's like you're wearing a tank top and you're, it's 60 degrees outside. So just implementing something that they can work on even my five year old understands, like where that stuff goes, and trying to do it ahead of time, either Friday before, like, while I'm in school mode, or maybe Sunday night before the week starts. Because you'll get those emails like it's crazy sock day on Wednesday, and like, alright, oops, yeah, I don't want to be looking for those crazy socks. But

Jennifer Uren
How much easier swap out crazy socks than to try to remember and, you know, if you've got everything already set, you can just make a tweak instead of going to plan a whole new thing based on that information.

Heather Greco
So many times we get the news later, like "Mom, did you know that.." I, I missed that email.

Jennifer Uren
"Did not know. Thank you." Yeah.

Heather Greco
Right, you know that kid to be the only one right? Right? That's one simple way to help at least just with because I have it for myself. I have all of my workout clothes, because I'm a set person who likes a match. So weird, I can't

Jennifer Uren
Just feel better about it.

Heather Greco
I just don't I just something I whatever. And so I placed it in there. So then in the nighttime, I'll grab it. Yep. And then put it on my sink. So it's ready for the morning when I get dressed. So I'm not searching for the matching set that morning and make it?

Jennifer Uren
Yes. Yeah. Oh, that's excellent. I had to laugh when you said 60 degrees, because this morning, it was 23 degrees. And my high schooler went to the bus stop with just a sweatshirt on because it wasn't cold yet. Why would she want to take a coat so you know, it's all relative?

Heather Greco
Oh, I mean, I get in the garage, I get the car, all the kids loaded up. And the other day, we drove out and I look it's like 32 degrees on my end, I look back and none of the kids have jackets because it was just warm. We didn't think about it. Right, yeah. That came through. And I'm like, I'm the worst mother, I'm sending them to school with no jackets. And it's like, well, at least it'll be too cold to go outside. But I was like, Oh, crap, like.

Jennifer Uren
Oh, will you talk about having standard operating procedures or a family playbook for your home and family? Can you tell us more? Like what what do you mean about that? And how do you use it?

Heather Greco
Yes, so it can come into play into different different things, so personally, I have, I have a nanny or I have some help that comes in, I just, I know I can't do it all. And so I and keeping good help is very difficult, because people that, you know, I like to say the lifespan of a nanny is about a year and a half because I hire them like early in their like college years, and then they're gonna go do their degree, and then they're gonna move on to big girl things and do their career, right, unless they're a career Danny. And so I my turnover is, is there, and so I get tired of explaining the same exact thing over and over or if that person doesn't work out, after three weeks, I gotta do it all over. And then now I've noticed that sometimes my transition periods are very tight, and my old nanny can't train my new person so then I'm doing it on top of, and I'm used to just everything, oh, well, knowing what to do. Yeah. And so having something written out where it's like, this is where all the kid's stuff is. This is the code words, like when they say this, this is what it means and having just a tool for them to either review or to fill out their info or the extra forums you have to get when you switch somebody out, you know, having that handy phone or emailing the school, and just having a place for everything that mom knows. So then it's an easy resource to be like it's on page five, go check it here. And if it's not in there, then let me know. It's like those lists that we make for like our pet sitters, and how many times that we have to write down like our phone number. And where we're going to be in emergency contact. Well, if it's already there, you can print it out. Or, you know, you can go and retype it out and just print out that page. And so just creating a system and a resource book, almost like an Airbnb, you can always stay home, there's always something there that tells you what to do around the area and where to find the things in your house. Same exact thing. It's just a way more detailed. What if something were to happen to me and no one knew I had six properties that have six tenants and all of a sudden, like, not that I have that way, but .

Jennifer Uren
Let's just pretend, yeah.

Heather Greco
Then that tenant doesn't know that maybe I passed away or whatever, or I'm in the hospital and that person that's taking over to help. They don't know to go collect rent every you know, first of the month, and then we got more problems later on because it wasn't, you know, down somewhere. And things like that.

Jennifer Uren
Yeah, yeah. And so I can see where if it's something that you do once a year and it, it's easy to forget how you do something you can have it documented so that you, you don't spend all your time trying to refigure out the process. You just do it.

Heather Greco
Yeah. And I'm in the, yeah, exactly. I'm in the process of like, I've had to put my house up for sale soon, I'm going through a divorce. So I'm starting from scratch, and I'm starting a new one. So I just got a car. So I'm gonna put in, you know, the warranty information, what it, what it covers, how long, what the dates are, because then a year and a half from now, I'm not gonna remember. And then they're gonna try and charge me something I'm like, isn't this covered, and you can go back and you can look and just being prepared. So you're not, you know, or if like, the AC in the house was just service, writing it down in one spot, because you'll lose the piece of paper, and just keeping up. So I'm refilling it out now, I have person, person helping, and so just keeping up, keeping it up. Yeah.

Jennifer Uren
And when it comes to, like, use nanny as the example. But even teaching our kids as we, as we give them more and more responsibility, having something like this takes a lot of stress off of both sides because now I would imagine that instead of saying, "You didn't do this", you're going well, let's go back here, because I noticed this step got missed or something. And I imagined it makes it easier for them to do it correctly. But it also makes it less confrontational, to have a conversation because you're not, it's not your preference that you verbally shared, it's an objective, step by step thing you can point to,

Heather Greco
Yeah, kids love lists and love they like being told what to do. They like to know the expectations, like it helps them stay calm, as well. And so it also helps when you have someone who's coming in, and they know like the kids know what they're supposed to do. And then they try to like finagle it a little bit and trick the sitter or the person that's watching. And if it's there, there's actually a spot in there that says expected behavior. And so I, you can list, you know, this is what they're supposed to do, this is where you're supposed to drop them off, this is what you might encounter, like, he'll cry for five minutes, let them cry, it's normal, and then he'll go off, you know, he will try to do this. But this is the expected behavior when they're going to this thing or when you have to do this at home. So it prepares them. So then they can't get fooled or tricked, like, oh, he was crying. And so I felt bad, right, put it in there, and you didn't get a chance to warn them. It's like and the kids know better than it's there. And then it's like, okay, she said this was gonna happen. So, you know, it's like a backup, like, backup promos, right.

Jennifer Uren
Absolutely? Yeah, well, let's switch gears just a little bit. And let's talk about that mom who wants to have her own business? Maybe she's turning her hobby into a money making venture. And I know, it sounds so easy when people tell you to just, you know, create an online presence and promote on social media. But the more you learn, the more overwhelming it can feel. And no pun will joke intended, it's enough to make you want to lose your cookies, right? So why has all of this become so overwhelming? And how do you help make it simple.

Heather Greco
So analysis paralysis is what we call that right? So much information, you just freeze and you don't do anything at all, when you simply just wanted to do like a simple thing. So I've my business has morphed into two separate things like helping moms at home, create systems and, and just, you know, peace of mind and just self sufficient. And then I also now teach Instagram and social media, for people that are just now starting their business because it doesn't come naturally for everybody. 50s 60s, starting their businesses, and they didn't have social, I mean, I didn't have a cell phone until 16. Like, we don't we're not like our kids now who have like the chip. And so learning just a simple way to post is, is taxing sometimes, and the button moves every five seconds because there's an update because we don't control the platforms. So just knowing where to find those things is a really helpful tool to just get to the next step. And so I simplify social media a lot for my clients. And for my followers, I, if there's a new feature, I try to do like a very visual tutorial, simplifying the steps because being told what to do and showing how to do it is way way different. And I like to be able to just I'm not telling you how to grow your business like in 10 exit. It's just simply making a post and putting it in the right place and making sure that people are seeing it. And we have to remember that we are in a very instant, instant gratification world where we see overnight successes are, that's what we like to think we're seeing because we're watching Social Media, we're watching YouTube, or watching all these people that have this presence. And we think it happened overnight, when you don't in reality, they've been working on it for 10 years, and they're building the momentum. So remembering to stay in your lane and remember, like you're not on their timeline, you're also not probably selling the same thing, or trying to serve the same audience, and to really stay on the person in the lane that you're trying to serve because you will grow a lot quicker if you're not trying to make everybody happy. And you're like, nope. And so remembering when you're starting a business to be really clear on what you want to do, but be open to the pivot, like social media is where my audience wanted me to go. And help them simplify it and create quicker systems with it. I have no interest in, in teaching social media, it's not something but I learned and I ended up getting a job because of it. So you just never know where it'll take you. So to be open to the possibility as long as it's in line, because you just those opportunities, just you think you want to do X, right? Like I came out wanting to help moms, and keeping moms from crumbling, right. I create a podcast so I can at least stay in that world, when really my money maker is Instagram and social media and systems. Because that's what people want are willing to invest their time in business, in their money into it. Where on the other side at home, it's like that comes on the backburner. You have to ask ourselves for permission, or I'd rather spend money on my business than on myself. So knowing where that goes in that's market research?

Jennifer Uren
Yes, well, you have a marketing background and that does give you a distinct perspective. So I have two marketing questions for you. The first is what is the biggest marketing mistake that you've seen? And the second is what's the simplest marketing strategy that someone could start right now.

Heather Greco
So the biggest marketing mistake, I would say is following him, well, if you're talking about money, follower campaigns, like do not do them do not boost those like the way that it works. Now on social, we don't do this, there's no swipe up that comes with 10,000 followers anymore, do you now everyone has a link to put into a story, it says click here, I don't like it as much because it's a two touch, like you have to click it and click it swipe up was just an exactly quick one, one step. But that was the goal is to get that magic number. And now you don't. And when you buy followers to make your numbers look good, they're just bots and not, they're, they're not concentrated on your audience so they'll actually help you ding you on the analytics,

Jennifer Uren
Okay,

Heather Greco
Because if you see someone with 8000 followers, when you've got six likes, those, they're not that stuff's not resonating and hitting with the audience in the organic growth. So I'd stay away from that, organically grow, it's much better for you. And it's also stays at a consistent pace. And I would also say consistency, staying consistent every day and showing up or every other day, whatever you can to stay consistent with it. Because if you do a bunch, and then you drop off and come back it, you don't get into the rhythm, you're not saying you have to remember that everyone, only 10% of your followers see, like, you might have 1000 followers, but only 100 are seeing what you put on. And what however, that piece of content performs with 100 people is that's going to decide, make the algorithm decide if it's going to push it to another 100 Or if it's gonna die on the vine. So just being consistent in knowing that you're delivering content for your actual audience that's teaching them something and helping someone. That's really what one.

Jennifer Uren
Okay, so when it comes. And that's really helpful. I guess one of my follow up questions to that would be inconsistent in being consistent, not inconsistency in being consistent. Do you recommend that people are posting organically live, you know, right in the Instagram itself? Or, like for someone like me, it's much easier if I can plan it out and have it scheduled to post because life gets in the way. And I have five kids. I'm not going to get this done at the same time every day. Yes, what what does it matter?

Heather Greco
So the only thing that matters, and every there's this big myth out there like "Oh, I have to be live", so the biggest myth about it is, a scheduler is great, if you have a scheduler and you want to schedule out your stuff that's perfect, the problem with the schedulers and why it's not as effective as being live is because we rely on that scheduling platform to put our posts out, the problem is, is that we have to push it along, you have 30 minutes from the time you post to get some touches you.

Jennifer Uren
Okay.

Heather Greco
Any type of impressions they call it likes, shares, comments, so being live at the time of your scheduled posts, so if you have it, like, "Okay, I'm gonna post it too, because I don't want to forget". Making a note to be available for 20 minutes during the time, maybe 10 minutes before it posts so you can be on there engaging and getting people to see the notifications of you commenting on things, then your thing posts and then what's happening is after you've engaged for that 10 minutes prior. Your followers or whoever you're commenting on most likely saying, "You know, Jenn Uren, you know, like your posts", they're going to open this, see which one it was. So now they're on the platform, so then when yours comes up, it's going to refresh and go to the top of it because you are now like linked algorithm. Now you've got 10 more minutes if you're only doing 20 minutes of your time to engage or to push it because that's the key. So the problem will Kegel things is relying on it to just do its thing. You do have to organically be on there. So got it doesn't ding you for that.

Jennifer Uren
That's this is really the first I've heard that explain because in my mind, I was always like, well, if consistency is more important, and the scheduler means I'm consistent, and I'm posting versus not posting. Well, then isn't that better? But this that's interesting, I had not heard that before.

Heather Greco
Because the algorithm is going to decide, if you what you posted, is it worth pushing? Is it going to keep people on their platform? Or is it going to be like really boring, and they're gonna like exit out of it, and I'm done with it. And so that's where this other big key piece of information is, especially if you're a Facebook user, Facebook will allow you to put links in your posts in your captions, right? Don't do don't do that. So 30, less than 30% of your content overall shouldn't have a link of any kind in the actual caption because as soon as the bots see, and those little crawlers see that there's a link in your caption, they're not going to push it, because they see that you're trying to take them off of their platform somewhere else and they're a business tool, they want you to stay on as long as possible. So the best place to put a link is in the comment section. So that's why you see a lot of seed constantly a link in the comments link in my bio, because then Facebook or whatever platform you're on, doesn't know who put it there, you would then go after you post put the link into your comments. They don't know if you did it or someone else did it. So they can't punish you or ding you, which means they'll continue to push it out to the people and keep it growing. And that is a huge mistake, because they're a business. So you want to serve them too, by making sure that you're keeping people on bringing them to different places on the platform and live is key like like saying going live, they love it, because it brings people to the platform. If you see someone going live, oh, what is she talking about? All of a sudden it's gonna boost and users.

Jennifer Uren
Okay, well, that's, that's helpful but I could talk to you a lot longer about this stuff. But yeah.

Heather Greco
The simple things I've learned through learning through mentors. That's the kind of stuff I teach because now people know about that and they sit there and they're like, why am I on Social, I'm not growing, I'm not doing but it just little tiny changes, you don't have to like spend all day on it. Sometimes I'll take a day off and not do it. And my numbers will go up because I'm giving the my followers like a chance to, to catch up on my online content and there's never, ever, ever such thing as too much content because remember, if you're posting on Facebook, and you post something else on Instagram, that maybe they didn't go on Instagram that day, and they only went to Facebook, they didn't see that other piece of content. So then it sits there waiting for you. Repurposing six months? There's nothing wrong because remember, 10% of your followers see what you're putting out there. So most likely in six months, you're going to be growing so those new ones haven't seen it and the other 90% Probably didn't either. So no one's counting. No one's noticing if you use the same picture from a year ago, like reuse what you have because believe me I wasn't paying that close attention.

Jennifer Uren
That's so funny. Well tell me what is the best thing that you have ever outsourced as a mom?

Heather Greco
Oh, I would say other than like help with my kids because like just to you're packing lunches or laundry help is great. As a mom? Whoo. I would say I used to, I don't do it anymore, I've lost that that person but at one point, the person that my nanny had a boyfriend that was in, he was culinary. He was like a line cook and he wanted to practice his knife skills to get better and I was like, well, what if I pay you 100 bucks a week to come in, cook my protein, prep my stuff, you get your practice, I don't have to do it, and then I get to, you know, whatever. And that was a fantastic. It was great for months, he would come in once a week prep, he got to hang out with his girlfriend a little bit and I had food ready. It was healthy. It was cooked well, because he knew what he was doing and he got to practice all when it was great and he was like, 18, so it was they weren't asking for much. And that was a really great source. But I will say now, I have a virtual assistant, my VA runs my calendar, she color codes everything for me. She, if I need to cancel something, I don't feel guilty doing it because I make her do it. It just makes me feel like I've got someone there to help me. I, my bandwidth it's, it's, it's great. She'll help me, she just sent me a Christmas list because she's like, "I need some more ideas", she says, "Let me just like put it in your cart, you let me know if you want it or not". It's like, cool. So she helps with my business. But she also helps personally, which has been That's fabulous. Absolutely wonderful. And she's a mom helps you think the same?

Jennifer Uren
Yes, yes. Yes. Oh, well, this has been a fun conversation but one question I asked every guest is a little bit more lighthearted and that is what is your favorite time saving gadget, I love gadgets, system or tool.

Heather Greco
I mean, I like a good timer. I have like these hour glasses that are really fun. My kids like to come in and like "Their glass or not plastic, don't play with them", but they're visual because I can flip it over. I have two of them. 1 10-minutes a piece, so if I'm going to go on social media for I'm going to do something that I really want to make sure that I don't go past my time. I'll put that on there, and they're bright colored. So I'll use that as my timer. And then once one is done, I know I'm at my halfway point. I don't like to use the timer is on my phone because I can press the snooze button.

Jennifer Uren
Yes, easily.

Heather Greco
Because I'm on my phone. Most likely I am doing social media or I'm sending an email. I can easily just push like snooze, and then forget that, that was something I was supposed to do. So using a timer other than your phone.

Jennifer Uren
Yes, I like that because you can't snooze the sand. You know, when it's dripping through?

Heather Greco
It's over. It's over. I mean, you can always flip it over again, right? But at least it's you're on task for me like I'll have reminders and I'll, I'm guilty of it. Sometimes I'll flip it up and then nine minutes later, I'll go off because snooze, I'm like, oh, yeah, oops, now I just lost nine minutes when I was like sometimes. So keeping the reminders and things off of your phone and somewhere else.

Jennifer Uren
I love that. That's great. Well tell us more about the freebie that you have for our listeners and how people can connect with you.

Heather Greco
So I have a one for each type of mom. So I have one for just the systems. If you want more of that pocket play, I have a pocket playbook. It's free. It's a smaller, smaller version of the Chaos Control System home edition that I have that what I was talking about, it's a free version with all the essential info that gets you started, can really just get a good feel. So that's for free at chaos and cookies.com. Or you can find it on my Instagram. And my other one is I have like a new coach kit. So if you and it doesn't have to be coaches, it's for a new business owner. And that is your steps on how to automate your systems or your link tree. Maybe you don't have a website yet. And you need just help setting up a link tree and then putting a link tree into like a flow desk or like an email. So it's very step by step new coach kit where it helps you set those systems up. They're all free. Okay, if not, there's a code in for like a 50% off if you need something that you don't, like, I'll use Flow desk. It's not a free platform. It's like 19 bucks a month. So you can grab that, but it's just a nice step by step on first you're gonna do this, and then you're gonna do this. And so that's also free.

Jennifer Uren
Excellent. Wonderful. Well, thank you. Well, Heather, this has been a great conversation. nd I appreciate you being with us today.

Heather Greco
Thank you for having me. And thank you again for letting me share all my things and I have a podcast too,

Jennifer Uren
That I also talk about this kind of stuff. So and what's your podcast called?

Heather Greco
Chaos and cookies podcast.

Jennifer Uren
Okay, excellent. Well, thank you so much.

Heather Greco
Thank you so much for having me.